Public Safety Committee on April 23rd, 2015

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you for your question.

We certainly have the intention to deal in an equal manner with provinces and territories, and I think you raise a valid point. We'll make sure this is clarified so that indeed, whether in territories or in provinces, the possession card will authorize transport.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

You're welcome, Mr. Leef.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Minister, you received a briefing note from the Commissioner of the RCMP. The briefing note is dated February 20, 2014. One of the things it says in the briefing note is that “Automatic firearms and their derivatives are”—and I want to underline these words—“a threat to public safety and considered more lethal because of their fast reloading action and their ability to discharge multiple shots each time the trigger is pulled.”

A binder was circulated to this committee in preparation for our examination of this legislation. In the binder it has those exact words, with some words lifted out. Those exact words, the words from the briefing note of February 20, 2014 to you, are contained in our binder except for the words “a threat to public safety and”.

My question for you, Minister, is, has something happened between February 20, 2014 and now that has caused there to be less of a threat to public safety? Since February 20, 2014, have you not accepted the advice of the RCMP with respect to the public safety element, or is there some other reason for this careful editing of the information provided to this committee?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

I thank you for your question. I think it gives me the opportunity to mention once again that the goal of this bill is to increase public safety. I gave you three measures that are embedded in the bill that are reinforcing public safety. This is my first goal as Minister of Public Safety.

If I can answer your question in this way, it is important to ensure that law-abiding citizens make sure they abide by the law. There are many provisions that make it illegal to modify a firearm. This is already in the Criminal Code. Anyone who has evil means can modify a firearm. This is illegal. If someone is doing that, this individual will face the full force of the law. In the meantime, this doesn't mean that those who are abiding by the law must be penalized as a result of other individuals who are contravening the law.

In more general terms, the firearm has to meet to specific criteria to be classified. If it is illegally modified, then this is out of the scope of the law and that's why we have this specification system and are able to fix it. This being said, I've always taken the advice of the RCMP into consideration, and did so in making this bill.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

So the omission of the territories in the provision that I referenced in my first question was inadvertent. And was omission of the words “a threat to public safety” inadvertent, Mr. Minister, or deliberate in the information that was provided to this committee?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

I would have to look into it. I don't know. I don't have the answer for you this morning.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

The bill allows for the transport of firearms, and transport that's allowed under the bill is set out in some detail. But what isn't specified is the timeframes for a firearm to be transported to and from shooting clubs, any place where a peace officer is located, or to or from a business. Could you explain what timeframes are involved in the transportation to these various locations, whether they are prescribed or implicit in the bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Just very briefly, Minister.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

The bill is clear. It's always the most direct route. And this is an opportunity to mention that all regulations regarding the carrying of firearms are maintained. I think this is why—and I fully agree with Mr. Leef—that the propaganda by the Liberal Party should be corrected. I can see that you have a good understanding of the bill. I invite you to make sure that your party is basing its funding on fact and not on propaganda, because frankly this is a disservice to public safety and honest debate on firearms regulation.

Thank you.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

To be an expert on [Inaudible-Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Madame Doré Lefebvre.

You have five minutes.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness for being here today to speak to us about Bill C-42.

Mr. Chair, you know that I am always proud to talk about my roots when the time comes to talk about hunting, fishing or even firearms in general. I come from a family where my uncles, aunts and cousins all hunt or fish. I took hunting courses and I am the proud holder of a hunting licence. I am very proud of doing this with my family. So every time we talk about firearms issues, I am personally concerned.

If I may, I would like to begin my questions by talking about the consultations. I will briefly go back to what my colleague Mr. Garrison said about the training for First Nations communities or northern communities that might have difficulty accessing courses to obtain their licences. I’m also intrigued about police services and the automatic granting of an authorization to transport a prohibited weapon.

Here is my question. Have there been or have you held consultations with First Nations communities or even with city police services specifically about automatic authorizations?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

The answer is yes. I have consulted with First Nations representatives; all the provisions already in the legislation under the mechanisms related to the use of firearms and the considerations related to Aboriginal people are being maintained.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

In terms of the automatic authorizations, have various front-line police services been consulted?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Yes, I have had a lot of exchanges on that. As I mentioned earlier, there is a daily process. In fact, each firearms owner in the country is checked daily against the number of events related to police operations. Those mechanisms remain in place. They existed before and they will continue to exist.

Clearly, the additional measures we are implementing-—mandatory training, better information sharing between the RCMP and the Canada Border Services Agency, and the revocation of the licence of those convicted of an indictable offence involving domestic violence —have also been the subject of consultations. I must say that the people consulted have received those measures very well.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

This discussion about the granting of firearms licences brings me to another issue. In your presentation, you mentioned the six-month grace period after the licence expires. This grace period is for firearms owners who have forgotten to renew their licences.

When they renew their licences, firearms owners are screened for any mental health issues. The goal is to specifically identify any risks that these firearms owners might pose to the public at large.

What will happen when the six-month grace period is in effect? Will there be no information during that period or will mechanisms be set up to provide the same type of follow-up as we have now?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

All of the follow-up mechanisms are being maintained.

In Quebec there have been cases where people receiving long-term health care could not renew their permit. As to this six-month period, it is important to specify that the permit has expired. The person can no longer use a firearm or purchase ammunition. With the grace period, we are letting people know that even if they have not renewed their permit, filled out and mailed the form, or met with a processing delay, this does not make them criminals.

Our government has put measures in place so that any person who owns a firearm illegally will be liable to a prison term of up to five years. For owners of firearms, finding themselves in this situation for administrative reasons was a major irritant. Think of a military person who was deployed overseas for nine months and whose permit renewal came up during that time. The person receives a renewal notice, but this happens while he does not have access to his mail; he then finds himself in a situation of illegality.

In short, all of the follow-up mechanisms have been maintained, and the person continues to be subject to constant verification under the system I referred to when I replied to your first question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you, Ms. Doré Lefebvre.

Ms. James, for five minutes.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the minister as well for appearing here with the officials.

I want to clarify something as well. There is a bit of discussion on whether or not the word “territory” was explicitly stated in the legislation. It's my understanding, and I'm not a lawyer by any means, with regard to definitions that where a territory is not specifically stated, a “province” actually includes Yukon, Northwest Territories, and Nunavut. That's included in the Interpretation Act and my good friend pointed out that he believes it's in section 35. I just wanted to put that on the record that we're covered, and I don't think this is a major issue with respect to this bill.

Secondly, Mr. Minister, I would very much like to thank you for strengthening the prohibitions for those convicted of domestic violence offences. Having formerly been on the status of women committee, I fully support the legislation introduced by my colleague, Bryan Hayes. When I saw this legislation and reviewed it for the first time, that was one of the things that stood out to me because it struck a really good balance of what's needed in this country. I want to commend you for bringing that forward in this legislation.

Speaking of striking a balance, this legislation also reduces red tape for law-abiding Canadians. I think that's extremely crucial.

When we talk about our Conservative government standing up for those law-abiding Canadians, it's obvious that the opposition parties were against scraping the long gun registry. It's something that we were committed to doing because we recognized that it did absolutely nothing for public safety and was a burden on those Canadians, such as farmers, hunters, and those who are involved in sport shooting.

The question I need to ask you relates specifically to something that my colleague, Mr. Easter, the Liberal critic on Public Safety, stated in the past. He has said that the Liberals stance on gun control cost them Liberals at least 60 seats in rural Canada. I heard it today as well from my colleague, Mr. Hayes, that it cost the NDP seats as well. Yet, they continue to be on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to common sense firearms legislation like we have before us today in committee.

Could you give the committee a sense of some of the support from across Canada on this legislation? I know Mr. Leef started to ask you that question, but I'm sure that there are a number of organizations that have given very good feedback to us on this legislation. Could you comment on some that?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you for your question.

When the Supreme Court handed down its decision concerning the abolition of data that was incomplete, obsolete and inadequate in the Quebec long gun registry, I was in Saint-Appolinaire, in the riding of my colleague Jacques Gourde. I should mention that I received a large number of positive comments from many Quebec men and women who where relieved to see that this saga was coming to an end. The data was out of date, and in my opinion posed a threat rather than being a source of information that could allow for effective measures. They encouraged us to continue to put in place effective measures for the control of firearms and domestic violence.

That is why I thought, for instance, about my colleague Rick Norlock. You know that he sits on the committee and is a former police officer. During caucus consultations, it was proposed that permits to acquire and possess a firearm be revoked for those who have been found guilty of conjugal violence. Many suggestions were also made by Mr. Leef and Mr. Robert Sopuck. One group promotes traditional activities involving wildlife, recreation and outdoor sporting activities. These people made a lot of constructive suggestions to eliminate the irritants. It is important to specify that I consider that a firearms owner who complies with legislation makes the whole context safer. That is why it is important, of course, to remove the irritants.

It was with this in mind that we met with representatives of the Quebec Federation of Hunters and Anglers, and the Quebec Outfitter Federation. We heard several opinions there. I am thinking for instance of Ms. Russel-Aurore Bouchard. A lot of people appreciate the measures our government is putting in place.

It is important to mention that some of the provisions of the bill that is before you strengthen our firearms registration regime, and by the same token also eliminate irritants, such as the fact that a person may be considered a criminal because he has not renewed his permit on time. People have a grace period for possession only. Again, these people are aware that if their permit has expired they cannot use their firearm or buy ammunition, because this would not be legal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

That's fine. Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. James.

Colleagues, we will now suspend just very briefly. I know the minister has other commitments and we will change witnesses and/or bring in additional witnesses.

We'll suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Okay, colleagues, we will reconvene.

In addition to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Murdock, we now welcome Julie Besner, the acting senior counsel for the criminal law policy section at the Department of Justice. Welcome to all.

We will now once again go to questions. We will start off the first round of seven minutes with Mr. Payne.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I thank the officials for coming today on this important bill. It's an interesting bill that some of the opposition members obviously don't agree with. However, there are some really good measures in this bill and, quite frankly, I've had the opportunity to have some input from the minister and officials on some of the things that I believe are really necessary. One of those, for me, is to have a safety training course. As a member of Parliament, and previously, I actually took that safety training course. It's very valuable.

Technically I could have challenged that course because I was a firearms owner; I was in the military. But I believe that this course has some very important aspects to it. I'm wondering if I could get the officials to comment on it and why they see it as being such an opportunity to make sure that Canadians are safe when using firearms.

[Kathy Thompson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Community Safety and Countering Crime Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question.

The additional requirement to take the training and not just challenge the test, as the minister indicated, is an opportunity to enhance public safety and to ensure that everyone has basic training. The minister referenced the training, for example, to be carrying a firearm and going over a fence, for example, or some sort of barrier.

The training really has two components. It has a classroom component, but it also has a very practical component in terms of safe handling, basic safety requirements, and use and care of a firearm. All of those components are handled in both the classroom and outside with a practical component. The training, of course, is customized in different regions, but it follows a basic curriculum that's been set by the Canadian firearms program, so it's uniform across the country.