Public Safety Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2013

[Anne Kelly]

On aboriginal programming specifically, we offer a number of programs and interventions. One that we're quite proud of is the Pathways initiative, and maybe that's what you were referring to. Our Pathways initiatives have actually increased from 7 to 25. This is a traditional environment, and for aboriginal offenders who choose to follow their healing path, they can be placed in those Pathways. In terms of other types of programs, we have specific programs for aboriginals that target substance abuse, violence prevention, and family violence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you. I'm sorry, we're out of time on this, but thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Bélanger for seven minutes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Guimont, ladies and gentlemen, I'm disappointed that the minister left the meeting after half an hour, but there it is.

The Correctional Service of Canada accommodation plan 2013-18 indicates about $1 billion in assessed needs, following the closure of Kingston Penitentiary, Leclerc Institution and the Ontario Regional Treatment Centre. It was assessed that the buildings that were in poor or critical condition and needed to be repaired constituted $1 billion of the total value of the existing facilities.

Could you please tell us how you intend to address this problem?

[Anne Kelly]

Thank you for your question.

We have obtained some investments enabling us to build new units, which will give us an additional 2,752 cells—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm talking about existing facilities, the ones in poor or critical condition.

Do you intend to demolish them?

[Anne Kelly]

No.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

How are you going to repair them?

[Anne Kelly]

I don't have that information here today. I would have to send you that information.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Could you please send it to the clerk?

[Anne Kelly]

Okay.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Back to double bunking for a minute.

According to the Correctional Service Canada’s 2011–12 report on plans and priorities, and I'm going to quote two passages, one on page 12, “double-bunking at these levels....” These levels are now 3,000, roughly; if the minister said 15,000, then 20% is 3,000.

Double-bunking at these levels increases the risk to safety and security in institutions because of pressures that inevitably arise in crowded conditions combined with the tensions that exist among some inmate groups.

The other one is on page 19:

…in the context of anticipated increases in the offender population and the consequent rise in double bunking, CSC will be challenged to meet its targets with regard to the reduction of assaults and violent incidents in institutions.

How do you respond to that, given what we've heard already this morning? These are from your own department.

[Anne Kelly]

Again, in terms of our population management approach, it's a multifaceted approach.

The first thing we do is ensure that all available cells are used. We have national population management strategy committees at both the national and the regional levels. This is something that we follow closely. We do make use of double bunking, and currently it's at the 20% level; however, with the building of the new units, which is going to give us 2,752 additional cells, we believe we'll be able to manage the capacity we have until at least 2018. The other thing we can do is make use of inter-regional transfers to manage our population.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Am I hearing you say that the level of double bunking will essentially be maintained?

[Anne Kelly]

No, actually with the addition of the new cells, with most of them online by the end of March 2014, we expect to return to a level of double bunking of around 8%.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

When?

[Anne Kelly]

This is once all of the units have come online.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Paulson, can you give me a sense of the costs related to the new headquarters of the RCMP? What are we up to now?

[Commissioner Bob Paulson, Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

No, I can't.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Can you supply that information to the committee?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Well, I'd have to go looking for it, so I don't think I can.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand you don't have them with you, but presumably someone has that.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Just maybe help me understand your question here.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I gather the headquarters are moving to the old JDS Uniphase facilities.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

It's done. It's been done for years.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

What are the costs associated with that?