Public Safety Committee on May 8th, 2018

[Superintendent Paul Brown, Acting Director General, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Yes. With regard to gun shows on weekends, etc., what we plan to do would be to actually work with those gun shows, trade shows, so that we can come up with something well in advance. If we know a gun show is going to be happening on a set weekend, we'll be able to staff up our resources accordingly on the phones to answer that. Other mechanisms would be...if we don't know in advance, it makes it very difficult to plan for that.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Certainly. I think this is an important one, recognizing that many of the rural residents I represent may not even have connectivity to take advantage of the Internet signal. I do appreciate where you're coming from.

In addition to gun shows, the other example of a destination that a gun-owner might wish to transport their restricted firearm to is a gunsmith. I'm curious if there is a problematic outcome, from a safety perspective, that would prevent the extension of an ATT, an automatic exemption to the gunsmith, in addition to a particular range.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Fraser, the legislation proposes to reinstate the requirement for authorizations to travel, but there are two types of travel that tend to be the most predominant and, if I could describe it this way, the most normal or usual. They would be from the point of purchase to the owner's home or from the home to an approved shooting range.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Do you have an understanding of what percentage, for example, of the travel with a restricted firearm that would represent?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

If you would add those two things together, it would probably be well over 90%.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I may get into this a little more with the second panel, but in the interest of making use of my time, I'll shift to the last topic I wanted to address.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Could I just underline one point?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Certainly.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

When we're talking about the authorizations of transport, this relates exclusively to prohibited and restricted weapons. It does not apply at all to hunting firearms and unrestricted weapons.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you. I appreciate that point.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have a little less than a minute.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

Finally, with respect to classification, I do know that sometimes parliamentarians are inclined towards knee-jerk reactions. In fact, sometimes they're rewarded for it, whether it's responding to an incident in another part of the world or potentially responding to the needs of a lobby organization.

I'm curious. If the RCMP are going to be in charge of the classification decisions, is there anything preventing them from releasing reasons in the interests of transparency as to why a particular firearm is classified a particular way?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Very briefly, please.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Not to my knowledge, Mr. Fraser. If that helps with transparency and in reassuring the public as to why a particular decision was taken, I would be more than happy to pursue that with the experts within the RCMP so that people have a full understanding about why a classification was made in a certain direction.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser, and thank you, Minister.

Mr. Motz, you have five minutes, please.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here today.

While I applaud, and I think all Canadians applaud, the concept that gangs and gun violence is something we all have to pay attention to and deal with, I have to suggest that, as I read this bill, it's embarrassingly lacking in anything that addresses gun violence with respect to gangs. You talk about this legislation being gang and gun focused, yet there is no reference whatsoever in this bill to gangs, guns, or criminal organizations.

I have to also suggest to you that I chuckle at the stats you have used, and how you have skewed them, because as you know, the commission of an offence for the theft of firearms was not a criminal offence until 2008 to 2010, and it took a while for that to get through the system. You suggest there has been an 800% increase, which suggests we should have about 1,200 when actually the stats from Statistics Canada suggest we have less than 900 that have been prosecuted in the last seven or eight years of this being there. I find interesting the use of stats to try to support the theft of guns and that the theft of guns is actually the problem here. It isn't.

We know that for the organized crime groups, especially in Toronto, it's the straw purchases. You have a somewhat legitimate gun owner or PAL owner come in and acquire a large number of firearms and then sell them to organized crime. It's a practice. It's what happens, and we know this happens all the time.

Your colleague, though, has introduced Bill C-75, a reduction of any sort of penalties for thefts, for the commission of an offence with a weapon, and these sorts of things. I'm really struggling, sir, to find out where and how you believe this will actually impact positively the gang violence and gun violence that's going on in this country. It's a regulatory bill that does nothing but target law-abiding gun owners. It does zero.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Well, Mr. Motz, you're entitled to your perspective and your opinion. I respectfully disagree.

I believe that enhancing background checks is an important improvement in the law. I believe the validation and verification of existing licences is an important improvement in the law. The provisions with respect to transportation, classification, and inventory are all important improvements in the law. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police have said that they believe this is sensible, practical legislation that will help them to fight crime that is connected to firearms, and it will be helpful for them—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Minister, I would suggest that the—

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Motz, you've made some assertions and it's fair that they be answered.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

You did answer what I asked initially and you've gone on from that. What I would like you to answer—

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I hope you accept the answer.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

—is that many of the members of the Canadian Police Association whom I've spoken to do not believe this is going to provide them with any sort of ammunition, if you will—pardon the pun—to fight their fight. The operational guys in the street are saying that this does not address the issues they're dealing with. This does nothing to deal with those issues.

I do take exception to that. I'm curious to know what evidence your department has, what studies have been done, for you to suggest that this will have a positive impact on gun violence and gang violence.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Let me cite your own colleague, James Moore, who was a distinguished member of the Conservative caucus, a distinguished member of the cabinet of Stephen Harper, who made a very eloquent argument in favour of the improvement in background checks. I quoted his entire speech in my second reading remarks in the House of Commons, so they're on the record.

There are those, like you, who take a contrary perspective, but I believe sincerely—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

That's based on experience.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I believe sincerely that there are five important measures in Bill C-71 that will contribute to public safety in a very meaningful way. Bill C-71 itself is in the context of a larger policy package that in part deals with guns and gangs, and we are committing up to $100 million per year to invest with provinces, police forces, and municipalities on specific initiatives with respect to gangs, including prevention, intervention, interdiction, and withdrawal from gang organizations.