Public Safety Committee on June 5th, 2018

[Randall Koops]

They would still be lawful. The status of the firearm does not change on June 30. June 30 is simply the date by which, in future, once the bill has passed both houses of Parliament and been brought into force, an owner would have had to be in possession of one in order to be grandfathered. People could still purchase them after June 30, but they would do so knowing that there would be no grandfathering, no ability to register it.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Then we're leaving it up to them to be aware of....

[Randall Koops]

It provides certainty for people to make their decisions about whether they wish to get into or out of that class of firearm by a given date.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

We're setting ourselves up for confusion. We're making it more difficult on the Canadian public to try to navigate through this process. How would it substantively change this bill to remove the date of June 30 and put, as was recommended, a prescribed date? What's the big...? I don't understand how that is going to have a negative impact on this bill. In my opinion, it would actually have more of a positive impact. Please tell me what negative impact moving the date forward to a prescribed date would have down the road.

[Randall Koops]

We defer to you on whether it's desirable or not, but the effect—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

You know my answer to that.

[Randall Koops]

—would be that it would allow for an increasingly larger class of owners for an undefined period, who could potentially then be grandfathered as owners.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

What you're suggesting is something that may be happening already. It may be that this exact issue that you're referring to may be happening as we speak, at this moment.

[Randall Koops]

People may now be making decisions about getting into or indeed getting out of that type of ownership of that type of firearm in the knowledge that, on June 30, they will have to be an owner if they wish to become a grandfathered owner.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Viersen.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

A lot of these firearms aren't produced here in Canada. They're produced around the world. On July 1, will CBSA allow these firearms to come across the border given the fact that we know this bill is not going to pass?

[Paula Clarke]

There are two categories here that the grandfathering clauses cover. The first category is the CZ 858s and the Swiss Arms that were deemed to be non-restricted. There was another category of Swiss Arms that were not deemed to be non-restricted because the RCMP was unaware that they existed at the time that the order that deemed these firearms was made. They're referred to as Four Seasons arms. They are currently prohibited.

There's an amnesty order in place that protects individuals from criminal prosecution for possessing them. It has four permitted uses: disposing of the firearms, selling them to a business that has privileges to possess prohibited firearms, delivering them to a peace officer, and transporting the firearms in order to give them to a peace officer to sell them.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes.

[Paula Clarke]

Regardless of what happens with this bill, these situations don't change until this bill is enacted. If this bill is not enacted, it will stay the same. So, the Four Seasons and the CZ 858s would remain non-restricted, and the amnesty order would be in place with regard to the other Four Seasons firearms that are not non-restricted, but are, in fact, prohibited.

The date that is set out in the legislation doesn't affect the legal classification of any of these firearms. It just gives notice to firearms owners to give them time to decide whether they want to be grandfathered or whether they want to dispose of the firearms. If the bill doesn't come into force and is not enacted, then that date is just meaningless.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

As we heard just a minute ago, people are going to be making decisions based around this date as to whether to purchase or sell their firearms. Some of these firearms are currently restricted firearms, but not prohibited firearms. This looks like they're going to become prohibited firearms. Will those firearms stop coming across the border on July 1? That's what this date....

[Paula Clarke]

Are we referring to the firearms that are deemed to be non-restricted, the CZ 858s and the Swiss Arms?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes.

[Paula Clarke]

No, that wouldn't happen until the bill came into force.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Okay.

[Paula Clarke]

That's when the classification of the firearms would revert back to the prohibited status. Currently, under the law, because of the order that was made to deem these provisions to be non-restricted, they are non-restricted until this act comes into force.

So, the Swiss Arms and the CZ 858s can be imported into Canada. They can be sold. They're treated as if they're non-restricted or restricted, depending on barrel length. This date does not affect that.

The other firearms are prohibited, and they should not be imported into Canada or sold.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

That makes sense.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Somebody suggested that I confuse easily, but your last statement did confuse me. It was that we're saying that the CZ 858s and the SAs are currently restricted and that after this act they become—

[Paula Clarke]

No. Currently, the CZ 858s are either non-restricted or, if they have a shorter barrel, restricted.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Right.