Evidence of meeting #137 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was actually.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Equality Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
No, I'm not sure that's what I said, Mr. Eglinski.
What I was saying was actually in agreement with you. In an emergency situation, there has to be somebody on hand who can take care of the situation. That doesn't have to translate into isolation, and there should be external, appropriate oversight as soon as possible afterwards.
Director, Equality Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
It's very hard to provide an answer in the abstract. In Ontario, Associate Chief Justice Marrocco talked about the five-day review and said that there needs to be external oversight at that point. I think it may be very possible, if you're going to be reviewing the placement in segregation sooner than that.... Again, our objections are registered, and I note, by the way, that this bill contemplated not even moving the person into a structured intervention unit for five days.
However, this bill is not talking about emergency situations; this bill is talking about moving a person into a different part of the institution as an ordinary part of prison life. We're not actually talking about the same thing. Emergencies happen, and they have to be dealt with.
Yellowhead, CPC
Yes, definitely, absolutely. That's what I'm concerned about: the safety of the prisoners and the guards.
Senator, Ontario, ISG
Yes, I'll give you an example.
Just two weeks ago, I was called by an individual in an institution because, having done this for years, I know many of the staff as well as many of the prisoners. This is an example of what could have evolved into a very different type of emergent situation.
Someone was distressed. There was a decision taken by a staff member to call me, even though it was after hours—it wasn't within the usual nine to five—because there was a perception that I might be able to engage in a discussion that could yield a very different result than where they were headed, which was potentially segregation, restraints, using OC spray and the like.
Those are the kinds of things that were being talked about earlier, things that can be developed from the beginning. If you establish those kinds of relationships and know who actually might be able to work with this individual to move them to a different place, it can be done in an emergency and has been done. Those decisions have been taken by front-line staff, by wardens and by more senior individuals within the Correctional Service of Canada, in my humble experience.
I think there are opportunities to do things differently. Yes, people have to be able to make decisions, but the choices they make depend on what they know is available.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you.
Before I suspend, I want to thank Senator Pate, Ms. Mendelsohn Aviv—I hope you make your flight—and Ms. Zwibel. Thank you for your contribution to the study of Bill C-83.
We'll suspend for a minute or two while we clear the room for an in camera discussion.
[Proceedings continue in camera]