I'll back up. Part of the reason Louise Arbour recommended that the women be used as the flagship for corrections is exactly what you've pointed to, which is that we could be doing many more progressive things that in our experience would also then benefit the men. Healing lodges are a perfect example. They were initially piloted with women.
However, what we can be doing is learning from that process and starting to work at undoing the culture that has been embedded in corrections, and in particular in the prisons for men. That's part of why I'm starting to go in to work with those men who are actually trying to undo that process.
I don't think it requires segregated units to do it, though. I do think we can work with a number of individuals who want to see meaningful change. Already, just in challenging some of the men I've come into contact with by asking them how they're going to get to medium security, they know they'll have to drop their colours and they'll have to negotiate.
Corrections historically would say that starts the minute someone walks into the prison, not somewhere down the road. We're not doing that.