Evidence of meeting #159 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conviction.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
Thank you.
It's my understanding—and I am quite hopeful that this bill will pass, hopefully with some improvements that have been suggested by our witnesses—that the bill will pass before the House rises, unless the Conservatives don't want to see it pass. I don't know what will happen in the months to come, but the hope is that this will pass.
5:10 p.m.
Criminal Defence Lawyer, As an Individual
I feel like I'm at an uncomfortable family dinner here.
5:10 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
5:10 p.m.
Criminal Defence Lawyer, As an Individual
I just had my Passover Seder last week, and I've had more than enough of that.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
When Mr. Cooper mentioned that, I just thought it was strange.
You have specifically stated that you see the pardon or record suspension versus expungement as a big difference.
The witness before had come and stated.... Some arguments have been made about how people are treated when crossing the border and that it would be different in the two instances. She said it makes no difference whatsoever. That was Campaign For Cannabis Amnesty: It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
My understanding from some of the witnesses on Monday is that, when a record has been suspended, it no longer shows up in CPIC, and a police officer doing a records check would not be able to see it. An employer would also not be able to see it once a record has been suspended.
What obstacles do you still think would stand in the path of these marginalized or vulnerable people with a record suspension versus an expungement?
5:10 p.m.
Criminal Defence Lawyer, As an Individual
As I noted, the real issue to me...and I agree there is a difference of opinion when it comes to travel. That really goes to what version of the CPIC registry we have given to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. They don't get it every day, as I understand it. They may have an outdated version.
For me the issue is that a record suspension can be revoked at any time. It can be revoked for something that reasonable people might disagree about, as to whether or not it's a good reason. As I said, a serious Highway Traffic Act offence.... Do you want somebody who otherwise wouldn't have a criminal record to have a criminal conviction hanging over their head if they get convicted of careless driving—which is a provincial offence, not a criminal offence? All of a sudden your criminal record is right back over your head.
If the records are deleted, they can't be brought back. That's the difference between expungement and a record suspension. It's in the name. It's just a suspension, it's not gone.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
It's my understanding from the witnesses who have come before us that they actually want that mechanism to be there in cases where there has been a mistake. This is because it is so complex to do the reverse situation, where people have to figure out whether they have a simple charge of possession or whether there were other charges involved.
The minister did also state that 95% of those records that have been suspended in the past for other situations are never revoked, so why is this such a big concern? Do you see this as something that would happen differently in this case?
5:10 p.m.
Criminal Defence Lawyer, As an Individual
I'm a criminal defence lawyer. I'm concerned about the 5%. That's a serious concern.
Like I said, you have a marginalized individual who has a conviction for cannabis possession who then, let's say, is noted by...and this is a real-life example. Their car is pulled over and they're found to be in the company of individuals who have serious criminal records or they are just found to be somewhere where serious criminal activity is being committed. They're not charged, never mind convicted, or they're charged and then charges are withdrawn. That can be the basis for revoking a record suspension.
Remember, what are we talking about here? We're not talking about something that is still an offence and for which you've been pardoned because of your good behaviour now and for which you've repented. We're talking about something that is not illegal anymore. How can someone even have it hanging over their head, I would respectfully ask? It's not illegal anymore. Why do we still want it in the system? What right case could there be to restore the conviction for something that's no longer a crime? Frankly, I fail to see that.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
The bells are ringing, but with consent I'm going to run this to 5:30. It's agreeable to all, I hope.
Mr. Motz, you have four minutes.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you.
First of all, you have some ideas in mind and some recommendations. Is it possible that you could provide this committee with a list of recommendations that—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
—would improve this legislation?
That would be great if you could provide this list to the committee.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
We confirmed yesterday with officials that individuals charged with minor possession of more than 30 grams in public before October 17, 2018, will be eligible for this expedited record suspension. However, right now, possession of more than 30 grams is still an offence.
5:15 p.m.
Criminal Defence Lawyer, As an Individual
You have to ask the government that passed the Cannabis Act. There was a fight about it and I wasn't a big fan of that provision either.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
That's inconsistent. What are the consequences of that?
5:15 p.m.
Criminal Defence Lawyer, As an Individual
As I said, that has to be directed to whoever drafted the legislation. I looked at that. I looked at this legislation and to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To me, that's actually a fundamental flaw with the way the Cannabis Act was drafted. If we're doing better than the Cannabis Act then I think we're ahead. I find the silver lining.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay.
Hopefully your recommendations have something to address that with.
I have one last question. Do you think that this record suspension process could potentially create some precedent for other charges down the road?
