Evidence of meeting #161 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That is a discussion between the commissioner and the board and the commissioner and the minister. What the government has proposed is that rather than create a board that has decision-making or directive power over the commissioner—
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
—it has given the commissioner of the RCMP, in her mandate letter, a very clear mandate to lead transformation of the RCMP—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
—and then to equip her with the tools to support her in doing that.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Right, but having said that, what I find interesting is that this management advisory board has been asked to deal with these cultural issues, with the harassment. Internal harassment is one of those cultural issues that continue to be facing the RCMP. But as I hear what you say, and I see the legislation, the board doesn't have a direct mandate to deal with that issue specifically. I'm curious to know why that was silent.
May 8th, 2019 / 4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
The board's mandate is not to fix those issues. The board's mandate is to give expert advice to the commissioner in her mandate to fix those issues.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay, so I chose the wrong words when I talked about fixing those problems. Still, if the mandate of the advisory committee is that we would like you to look at this specific issue, because it's a cultural issue that's occurred for decades within the organization and that it's something to focus on, I find it intriguing that this legislation is silent on that.
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That's the choice the government of the day has made, to give that mandate very clearly to the commissioner and then to support her with tools to deliver on the mandate, rather than at this point upset or alter the existing relationships—
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
—in relation to who is the employer and who has financial authorities, etc.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Obviously, you believe there are benefits to the development of creating this management board. Obviously, there are probably some disadvantages as well. Do you believe the work of the management advisory board will lead to improved governance, and if so, how?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
As we said, the benefit comes to the commissioner in having a broader set of experts who can help her with very complex issues about a very complex national organization.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
But that goes back to Mr. Graham's question about what the composition is of this advisory board. If you don't have a broad section of experts to do that...and “broad” means not just policing, but you need to have a policing context to fall back on.
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Of course you do.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
You need a legal framework. You need HR expertise. You need corporate experience for the management of such a big organization with that mandate. Is that the goal, that we will have that breadth of experience on this committee?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Very much so. Mr. Goodale has spoken publicly about the process under way to find the composition of a board that does those very things.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, sir, for being here today.
You answered in the negative when you were asked if the RCMP had to implement the advice they receive or to respond to it.
As indicated in the bill, the board's mission is to act “on its own or following a request of the latter”, the latter being the commissioner. In theory, the RCMP is not obliged to consult the board, unless they decide to share information or unless the RCMP decides to proactively ask for any information, but not as a legal obligation. Is that correct?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Or, in the third scenario, the Minister of Public Safety requests or directs the commissioner of the RCMP to seek the view of the management advisory committee.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
At the end of the day, neither side has a legal obligation to consult the board.
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Correct.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Thank you.
I have another question for you. Maybe this is in your document and I did not see it. If that is the case, please forgive me.
Is there an obligation or a reporting mechanism, a public report that the minister or some other authority has to table, which would make the public and RCMP members aware of the advice that was given and the interactions that took place?
