Public Safety Committee on May 8th, 2019

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I have one.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have one?

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I'd rather deal with the questioning and come back to deal with the amendments on another day. Otherwise, we are being loaded down with everything again in a short period of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We don't have to report until May 17, so we do have time. It may require a special meeting, because we are chockablock for the next two meetings.

We'll go to the next round, and then we'll deal with amendments at some future date.

Is that good?

Are you fine with that, Mr. Dubé?

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I'm just wondering how many questions colleagues have left, or if we could use that time to get to the amendments.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Eglinski certainly wants....

Do you want to go, Ms. Sahota?

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

I wanted to speak to my suggestions in the motion.

After hearing from the witnesses, I think I have a fourth one to add from the floor, but we might be in agreement about what that fourth one is, because I'm actually picking it off of some of your questions, Mr. Motz.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Let's go with Mr. Eglinski, and we'll see whether anybody else has any other questions.

After Mr. Eglinski, we'll start discussing these and then we'll go from there.

Is that fine?

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Eglinski.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, and my thanks to both the witnesses.

In my past experience as an RCMP officer for 35 years, I think the majority of the membership would appreciate this committee, but I do have some concerns. The mandate of the board would be to advise the commissioner of the RCMP on the force's administration and management, including resources, management controls, corporate planning and budgets. What power would this committee have to advise the appropriate ministries within the government on funding for the RCMP?

They can make all the recommendations they want to the RCMP, but without the support of Treasury Board or the public safety minister's office to respect what they are saying to the commissioner and supporting the board on those recommendations.... I don't see anything in here saying that they have the authority to go back to the two ministries who are going to be responsible overall.

[Randall Koops]

Ultimately, the board would give its advice to the commissioner. As foreseen, the commissioner, in turn, supported by that advice, can help make better decisions and present better business cases. If we take the example in (f),“the development and implementation of operating and capital budgets”, she has expertise available to her to present—

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

But the expertise is only as good as the support that that expertise gets if they pass the information on. I remember that when I was in a force, we were always within the top three salary-wise in Canada. Things drastically changed over the years, and now we're somewhere around 50—I don't know, I can't count that far, as I don't have enough fingers and toes—but we need the two relevant ministries to support the committee they want to form, and yet you have nothing in here saying that they're going to give that support to the committee.

They're going to make recommendations and then the commissioner is going to have to come back and fight with the public safety minister and the Treasury Board to get the funding.

[Randall Koops]

The bill includes a provision that the management advisory board may also provide the minister with a copy of any advice that it is giving the commissioner. On those types of issues where there are large, difficult decisions being made—you used an example about capital budgeting and those kinds of things—the board may well see fit to share that advice with the minister to ensure that they also know the advice it has given the commissioner.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

That's my main concern. I just wanted to hear it from you. I guess we have to wait to see what takes place.

[Randall Koops]

The other provisions are, as we mentioned in response to a question from the other side, that the deputy minister is also present in the meetings of the board and therefore is aware and informed by the discussions and deliberations of the board.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I want to mention here on the record that one of the biggest problems facing the RCMP over the last 20 years has been funding and keeping up the resources to the level that they think they should be. They can't do that, though, because they don't have that funding. It all comes down to budgeting and putting the money where the best resources are.

Thank you, that's all I have for questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Eglinski.

Does anyone on the government side have questions?

Mr. Motz, you can ask one or two questions. You have a couple of minutes, and that's it.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Am I to assume that the members of this advisory board, certainly the chair and vice-chair, would be covered under the Government Employees Compensation Act, which would mean they would be paid?

[Randall Koops]

All the members will be paid. They will be paid a per diem. That rate is fixed as part of the appointment process when the Governor in Council makes the appointment.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

That includes the chair and the vice-chair. They're not getting a salary; they're just getting a per diem.

[Randall Koops]

Correct. It's a part-time appointment, so they will be paid by the day, plus their travel expenses. In these types of arrangements, normally some degree of preparatory time or reading time will be paid.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Has the department determined approximately what this committee would cost annually?

[Randall Koops]

The department has determined the cost of the committee at about, I believe, $1.6 million per year, $7 million over 5 years, and $1.6 million ongoing to be funded from within the existing reference levels of the RCMP.