Evidence of meeting #169 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
You have five RCMP, and will you have five new members for the CBSA?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No, sir, that's incorrect. We'll just have five members. The commission will have—
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
—five members. That's right.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay. How do you then.... One of the issues of the RCMP membership now, which certainly will be a concern for CBSA, is dealing with these issues in a timely manner. Yes, we need to be responsive to the complaints from the public, but we also have to be understanding of what some of these complaints do to the membership. Frivolous and vexatious complaints need to be addressed in a timely way, as well as just the disposition, even if they're founded complaints.
How do you propose to accelerate the timeline that you've already talked about in terms of a few months on some of the smaller cases to several years for some of the more complex ones?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
One of the things this bill is going to help with is the fact that there will now be service standards. There will be service standards for the RCMP as well as service standards for CBSA in terms of their responding, which will assist the commission greatly, whereas right now, the RCMP, in the current RCMP Act, do not have a specific service standard in terms of when they have to reply back to us. We will be negotiating service standards with them and with the CBSA when the new act comes into force.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Does that service standard apply, then, if a member of the public doesn't complain to you? Here's what I'm getting at. You have a service standard that is going to be built in. If you are asked by a member of the public to intervene or to review a file that's already been investigated—either by CBSA in this case, in Bill C-98, or the RCMP, because they're both going to be similar—the RCMP and the CBSA, for that matter, will both have a service standard to meet.
What happens previous to that? Do they have service standards now? If a member of the public complains to CBSA or the RCMP now, is there a service standard such that they have to respond to a member of the public in a timely way?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I can't speak to what CBSA is doing right now, because we're looking at what we're doing in the future. In terms of the RCMP, they do have a policy document that's in place, but there's no requirement for them to articulate that service standard externally. Right now, there really isn't a service standard externally in place for that.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Mr. Sauvé, would you care to comment on that?
Co-Chair, National Police Federation
As I mentioned at the beginning, I think service standards are a fantastic idea. One of the comments I would make is that the implementation of service standards for the investigational side would be a huge win for the membership. As you mentioned, having something hanging over your head for a year to two or three years and not knowing the resolution is the bottleneck right now.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
All right. Thank you.
I saw you sitting in the gallery when I asked the minister this question. You have five members as a commission. Do you have investigative resources that you have access to that provide you with the ability to reinvestigate if a complaint is found to be insufficient? Does that exist for both the RCMP side of your commission and the CBSA side of your commission? Who is the investigative body that you contract or go to for that?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The answer to your question is yes. We do have the ability to investigate. I have a team of seven investigators who currently work for me right now. I suspect that with the increase in funding, as well as the new mandate, we will be increasing the number of investigators we have. In some cases, if we require and need very specialized expertise, then we contract out for that specialized expertise. For example—
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Who would you contract out to? Is it to other police services?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I'm sorry?
Conservative
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No. It's not other police services. We go to civilian contracts and look at using those types of services.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
On the investigators you have now, where are they from?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
They're a mix. I have some who are from other police services. I have some who have come from family and social services, so it really is—
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Are they on secondment? Are they seconded positions?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No. They're public servants who work directly for me.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
They've had previous experience in those agencies.
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Exactly.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
All right.
This has been a long time in the making. You heard us talk about that with the minister. Is there anything as you see the bill.... I mean, as the commission, you're responsible. You're going to be tasked with making sure that now CBSA falls under the requirements of this commission as well for civilian complaints review.
In order to look after the public in a timely way or in any way to be efficient there, and to also be responsive to the RCMP and CBSA members who might be the subject of a complaint, is there anything that we should be considering in this bill but is void in this legislation now or anything that could strengthen it to be more effective on both sides?
Chairperson, Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The legislation as you have it before you is very similar to what we see in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act right now. There are probably a few minor housekeeping issues, but as we read it right now, as the commission, there are no showstoppers.
