Public Safety Committee on July 15th, 2019

Evidence of meeting #171 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was protection.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Meeting Requested by Four Members of the Committee to Discuss their Request to Undertake a Study of the Desjardins Group Data Breach

Desjardins Group Data Breach

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Superintendent Mark Flynn Director General, Financial Crime and Cybercrime, Federal Policing Criminal Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

André Boucher Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, Communications Security Establishment

Annette Ryan Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Elise Boisjoly Assistant Deputy Minister, Integrity Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Maxime Guénette Assistant Commissioner and Chief Privacy Officer, Public Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Judy Cameron Senior Director, Regulatory Affairs and Strategic Policy, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions

Guy Cormier President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group

Denis Berthiaume Senior Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer, Desjardins Group

Bernard Brun Vice-President, Government Relations, Desjardins Group

5:05 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Integrity Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Elise Boisjoly

You are absolutely right. You do not have a PIN.

Is this something we could consider? Maybe. What is important to say is that, to access a service, you must give other identifiers such as the line...

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

It depends on the companies we request services from, but, I agree, you're right.

Wouldn't a penalty be appropriate? We see that retailers or banks frequently ask for social insurance numbers, and this is not always necessary. Shouldn't there be a system of penalties for those who ask for a social insurance number when they don't need it?

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Integrity Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Elise Boisjoly

That is an interesting question. I don't know if any predecessors have addressed this issue.

Currently, we have a very clear list of who can do so. We have very clear instructions for citizens. When someone asks them for a social insurance number and they are not on the list of people who should ask them for it, they can seek redress with the Privacy Commissioner of Canada.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Couldn't we include criminal provisions in the act for this, whether it be a fine or some other sanction?

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Integrity Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Elise Boisjoly

Yes, it would be something to check, but I don't have any information on that today.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

All right. Fine.

I have one last question if you...

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Unfortunately, your time is up, Mr. Fortin.

That ends our questioning.

On behalf of the committee, I want to thank the officials not only for your initial appearance but also for your subsequent appearance and waiting for the other witnesses.

We are going to suspend and then go in camera. We will take a couple of minutes to clear the room.

[Proceedings continue in camera]