Public Safety Committee on Nov. 1st, 2016

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So just as a lawyer carrying on his mandate has to retain the secrecy of whatever was entrusted in the course of his profession, it's the same thing here?

[Ian McCowan]

Exactly, and as my colleague noted, this is similar to the requirements that are imposed on public servants who have access to this kind of information.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What if it is otherwise disclosed—for example, if WikiLeaks makes the documents public?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Then I start an investigation.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Then it's protected, because it comes back to national security.

[Malcolm Brown]

Then I think it gets interesting in the context that, if information is in the public domain, it gets very complicated. It's hard to give you a precise general response, because what might be in a WikiLeaks leak might be one slice of a broader piece of information.

This advice I wouldn't give parliamentarians or any member of the committee, but if a staff member or a former employee were to say, “Oh, well, it's on WikiLeaks, so I can talk about everything I've learned on that issue”, I would counsel them to be very careful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

Ms. Watts.

[Dianne Lynn Watts, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thanks very much.

I have just three questions. In drafting Bill C-22, did each of the agencies provide input?

[Malcolm Brown]

Each of the agencies was briefed and kept informed. I think there was ongoing consultation. There was certainly close consultation...the role I play, or my department plays, in the portfolio, and other partners around town.

Ian, would you add anything?

[Ian McCowan]

As part of the development of the process, a range of actors who were implicated around town were consulted on the development of this.

[Dianne Lynn Watts, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Okay, so they were consulted and had input into the contents of the bill?

[Ian McCowan]

Yes, and also ultimately the legislative drafting section of Justice takes that and puts it into the frame that's before you now.

[Dianne Lynn Watts, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Okay.

Going across the country, we heard a lot from a lot people in the five or six cities that we were in about the different organizations working in silos and just in terms of the different cultures in the different organizations. I do want to hear whether that sharing of information and working together is a factual statement or whether there's more work to do around that—and I don't want an answer from you two.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Dianne Lynn Watts, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Is it just in terms of developing the relationships and sharing, or is there formal...?

I'd like a really brief answer.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Maybe I'll start and talk about the sort of crucial relationship with the service and to a lesser extent with other partners. We have a very developed and sophisticated framework that has guided our relationship. It is a very successful relationship. It's very active. We're sharing and comparing information. For example, my colleague spoke about the events of the recent Driver case. That's a very good example of how we collaborated not only with the service but with the FBI and others. It's very active and strong.

[Dianne Lynn Watts, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Does anybody else want to add to that?

No? Okay. It's all good.

Bob, in terms of some of the resources that have been reallocated and moved into national security, can you talk about the gap that's left within the organization to fulfill other obligations across the country?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

I spoke to this committee the last time I was here in fact about the impact on our financial integrity work and organized crime work by taking those skilled investigators and bringing them to work on national security files. But it's always a question of priorities and assessing priorities. It has been a gap and a challenge in those other areas.

[Dianne Lynn Watts, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

We also heard that pulling people away from border security meant there were gaps in the integrity of the border services. Is that a fair and accurate statement?

[Linda Lizotte-MacPherson]

We continue to look at what our priorities are, where the gaps are, and align and realign resources. That's something we do on an ongoing basis, depending on threats. We'll adjust depending on the needs.

[Dianne Lynn Watts, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I would like to take the chair's prerogative to ask one question of Mr. McCowan here.

With respect to clause 21, but elsewhere in the bill, it refers to the person of “the Prime Minister”. I would like your understanding of the interpretation. Is that the person of the Prime Minister? Is it the Prime Minister's Office? I don't see any delegation and I don't see any other classified person, so I read it as only one person.

[Ian McCowan]

I read it the same way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Okay. I wanted to clarify that and have that on the record. We're not talking about the Clerk of the Privy Council. We're not talking about anybody else. It is the person.