Public Safety Committee on Sept. 26th, 2017

[Liane Vail]

As far as PTSD is concerned, I'd just like to elaborate on that because oftentimes when you're talking about an illness, you automatically assume that you have the illness and you're diagnosed. How it really works is that you can have signs and symptoms and never be diagnosed because you've got the appropriate treatment, and it hasn't lingered.

In order to be diagnosed, you have to go to a subject matter expert, a psychologist who does an evaluation based on questionnaires, pre-testing, and who then has an interview with you. For somebody to say that they have PTSD, it means that they've gone through all those hurdles to be diagnosed with the illness. Can somebody come to you and say, “I have PTSD symptoms”? Absolutely. I'm sure everybody in this room could look at the diagnostic manual and say, “Well, I've had that before.” In order to really say that you have a diagnosis of PTSD, or whatever mental illness it is, there are many hurdles that you have to go through, like meeting with a psychologist, like filling out questionnaires, and even more questionnaires, and having a formal interview. Then that subject matter expert will give you his professional opinion of whether or not you meet the diagnostic criteria. Everything up until that point is signs and symptoms.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes.

[Michel Rodrigue]

Mr. Chair, on the last portion of your question, which is the most important criteria, it's not going to be surprising to you that, as in any change management process, the firm commitment of the leadership is the most important criteria for success.

I'll give you an example. If living with a mental illness and going to recovery remains a career-limiting move, this program is not going to have the impact we want. So that commitment from the leadership will be required, and it's a key portion of the success.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

On behalf of the committee, I do want to thank each and every one of you for your work, your presentation. It is greatly appreciated and certainly acknowledged by your elected representatives.

Thank you. You're free to go.

Colleagues, we do have a problem on Tuesday. We have the joint meeting on Thursday with the immigration committee, and the notion was we could potentially do a Tuesday meeting, also with a meeting...or we could commence an indigenous studies meeting, which I think is four....

Michel, I have your opinion, but the clerk says that's going to be a little tough to set up for witnesses.

Glen.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Mr. Chair, on behalf of our group here, we would certainly support the continuation of Thursday's meeting for Tuesday. It is a pressing issue nationally, and it certainly is for Quebec, and I would say that we continue on with the immigration and migrant issue.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I have no problem with that either. I'm just wondering how we know that Bill C-21 will not be here on Tuesday, because I have a different understanding of that situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

My assistant just whispered to me that Bill C-21 is on the Order Paper today. As of last night at five o'clock it was nowhere to be seen. So we appreciate the flexibility.

My attitude will be that if Bill C-21 cannot be before the committee on Tuesday, then we will postpone it until after Thanksgiving, because I would rather have us do a continuous approach to Bill C-21, rather than piecemeal.

Michel.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

We are speculating on hypotheses. If Bill C-21 does not come to us for study on Monday, we would then have another meeting available, given that we will probably not be able to work on it on Thursday either. That leads me to recommend that we work on the First Nations study, because it is already scheduled into the agenda. The study can be interrupted when Bill C-21 arrives. We could set aside one, two or three meetings for that study, until everything is taken care of.

I understand completely that immigration is a hot and delicate topic. The fact remains that, in my opinion, it is an issue that involves immigration first and public safety operations second. The reduction in the number of arrivals makes immigration a prime concern for the committee that deals with immigration. At that point, the idea of having a single meeting on the issue, as scheduled, is enough for me. We could then start our study on First Nations as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Peter, go ahead.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I take the point on the asylum issue being pressing. At the same time, I think we need to understand that the indigenous peoples of this country make up 4% of the population yet represent 25% of the prison population. That is also quite pressing. I would say that we need to begin looking at this on Tuesday.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you for your range of opinions. I take the general view that I do not wish to cancel meetings for lack of things to do, but I am in a bit of a flux position. Thursday I will likely have more clarity for the committee, and we'll move forward from there.

Thank you for your contribution.

The meeting is adjourned.