Public Safety Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2017

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you to all of you for your work on this and for being here today.

You answered this question in the context of broader questions, but I just wonder if you can put it on the record again. Specifically for snowbirds, will the information be shared with the provinces? They have concerns about their health coverage. This is in terms of snowbirds and the sharing of information with provincial governments.

[Martin Bolduc]

Maybe I'll ask my colleague, with permission, to answer that one, to be very, very clear so as to not create anxiety in a fairly large population that enjoys the sun during the winter.

[Andrew Lawrence]

There is no sharing of this information with provinces.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Sort of building on that, though, we know that this bill is going to assist law enforcement in terms of Amber Alerts, human trafficking, child sex offenders, and a number of areas. In those situations, obviously there would be information sharing required within law enforcement agencies, which may be provincial or even municipal. I'm just confirming that the sharing of information, when it comes to law enforcement, will still happen.

[Martin Bolduc]

It will still happen, yes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay.

I have another question. The bill cites information that will be shared between our two countries—surname, first name, middle name, date of birth, citizenship, and sex of the person. We're getting that from our passports. If in the future the United States decided to gather additional information upon entry—for example, retinal scans or fingerprints or anything like that—would that information be shared with us, or are we limited to what's in the bill and the passport?

[Martin Bolduc]

Right now I believe it's limited to what's in the bill. If in the future we wanted to collect more information, then I believe we would need amendments.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

We'd have to look at it again.

[Martin Bolduc]

Yes, but right now, to be clear, it's only information that is contained on page 2 of the passport. That's it.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Regarding entry and exit requirements—you spoke a little bit about this—I understand that other countries are already doing this. I wonder if you could speak a little bit about how this has been handled in other western countries like Australia and New Zealand, and how it has helped our allies to manage their borders effectively.

[Martin Bolduc]

The U.S. already collects exit information in a systematic fashion without physical control. After the last incident in Times Square, law enforcement was able to identify a potential suspect fairly quickly. That information was shared with U.S. Customs and Border Protection, and they were able to arrest somebody who was trying to board a plane to get out of the country. I think that's an example of how valuable that information is.

Even domestically, we've had instances of parents phoning the police or CBSA because they feared that their kids were about to take a plane to Turkey or Syria. Our ability to act and prevent such departures is very limited, unless we have very specific information about where and when the departure is to occur. With this, if the bill gets royal assent, we will have the ability to do a query and see if we have somebody scheduled to depart on a particular flight.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you. Certainly this is a gap that we've seen. I did a tour of the Weather Network and saw how the system is managed there. There certainly is a gap with people leaving the country. We can manage it fairly well within our own borders, but when someone chooses to leave, particularly with an Amber Alert, it can present challenges for the affected families and for law enforcement to act on it.

I guess that leads me to my next question. This is something that fulfills a commitment made some time ago. Could you speak a little bit on how the passage of this bill will address the current gaps we're facing, over and above the Amber Alert issue?

[Martin Bolduc]

It serves what I call a law enforcement objective to be able to intervene when there's an Amber Alert or to prevent people from leaving the country for terrorism reasons. The bill also gives us the ability to share information for program integrity reasons. Programs that have a residency requirement will be able to share information with IRCC so that they will have a complete file on an individual who's applying for citizenship. They will be able to share information with CRA on those who don't meet the residency requirements for the child tax benefit and OAS.

It serves, as we say in French, a panoplie of objectives that will all be met. It's essentially bringing Canada up to par with our Five Eyes partners and other countries around the world.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

But it won't slow travel in between—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madam Damoff.

Mr. Paul-Hus, you may go ahead for five minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to pick up on the discretionary component. Currently, when it comes to air travel, the information is collected automatically. In response to my previous question, you said that when a person crosses the border into the United States by land or vessel, the information is collected automatically by the system, so that means there isn't any real discretionary authority. It's an automatic system that generates information on travellers' border crossings. Is that correct?

[Martin Bolduc]

Yes, exactly.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Very well.

The bill gives the agency discretionary authority. What does that mean? If it's only the information on page 2 of the passport, it isn't possible to obtain additional information. I'm trying to wrap my head around the discretionary component.

[Martin Bolduc]

I'm going to ask Mr. Aubertin-Giguère to round out my response.

In terms of the proposed provisions involving the authorities responsible for exports, the bill defines discretion as “if requested to do so by an officer”. If the officer has reason to believe that a person who is about to leave the country is committing an offence, the officer can question the individual and, if necessary, conduct a secondary examination of what the individual has in their possession. The discretionary authority exists because that doesn't happen systematically. There will not be any type of physical control whereby everyone will have to make a declaration upon leaving the country. That isn't the case.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That brings me to my next question.

As far as contraband goes, it is police and the RCMP who investigate the smugglers and any crimes that may have been committed. Does the RCMP already send you information or suspect lists, so that you are alerted should you come across any of the names on your lists? Is that how it works?

[Martin Bolduc]

We work with the RCMP on a variety of files every day. We are jointly responsible for the land border. In terms of air travel, they are our colleagues and we are on the same teams. When the RCMP considers a matter to be within its purview or believes that an individual is about to commit a crime upon entry into the country, the information is indeed shared with us.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

At the end of the day, what does the bill change? On the air travel side, it was already covered. When an individual is at the airport, you already have their information, do you not?

[Martin Bolduc]

The bill strengthens our authority in the area of exports, which wasn't entirely consistent with our authority in the area of imports. Basically, what it does is bring both of those authorities up to the same level. It gives us a clear mandate that applies upon entry and exit.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

What is the situation on the American side? Are the two authorities entirely consistent in the United States? We are establishing our rules, but do the Americans have the same rules or plan to bring them in?

[Martin Bolduc]

Yes, they are already in place. As I mentioned, we have been systematically sharing information with them since 2013. The fact that the bill adds Canadian citizens to the categories of individuals subject to the exchange of information does not change anything. No changes will need to be made.