That's a pretty big question. I think, generally speaking, you're giving them the tools. It's like a lot of other areas: until they're actually out there in the field trying them out, it's hard to say.
I haven't counted, but the number of times that the words “protection of privacy” are mentioned in this bill is really quite astounding. I'm as much in favour of privacy as everybody else, but I sometimes wonder whether we're placing so much emphasis on it that it's going to scare some people out of dealing with information relating to national security. Generally speaking, though, I think they do have the tools.
What does worry me a bit—and I say this with great deference to Monsieur Blais and his colleagues—is that I think the review capacity, the review effectiveness, at least initially, is going to impose a considerable burden. Departments that have never had to deal with SIRC all of a sudden are going to have to develop a practical definition.
I think, to call a spade a shovel, the definition of national security is going to be hard. I understand what Monsieur Blais was saying. It's not that clear when someone is in Heritage Canada or the Department of Agriculture or CFIA that what they're doing could possibly affect national security. There's one stream that's easy to follow, and that's if they use information provided by CSE, but more broadly.... I'll give you an example.
A deputy minister once called me when I was at CSIS and said, “My department has responsibility across the country for doing a variety of things relating to individuals, and we think there's a pattern here that suggests that there's some foreign interference, and you ought to do something about it.” Four months later, our lawyers sort of concluded they weren't sure it was national security, and they were pretty sure they couldn't do it, given the Privacy Act.
Now, with great deference to lawyers—I was one earlier, and I'm now no longer one—I think we need to find a way to simplify some of these concepts. I know that once the bill is passed, if it's passed, there will be operational instructions, but my hope would be that in some respects, on some aspects of the bill, we could be a little bit less legal and a little bit clearer.