Evidence of meeting #5 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was risk.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Mr. Bensimon, Mr. Paul-Hus' time is up.
Maybe for the witnesses in particular, we have what is now a six-minute round.
Criminologist, As an Individual
It's okay, no problem. It will come back.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Yes, exactly. If you look at the chair from time to time, then I don't have to interrupt the flow of what people have to say.
Ms. Damoff in particular is very skilled at managing her six minutes.
Liberal
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thanks to all the witnesses.
Ms. Latimer, I want to thank you for the good work that you do in keeping the public safe by reintegrating offenders into society in the way that you do. I want to sincerely thank you for everything you do.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Mr. Blackburn, I want to clarify something that you were alluding to.
We had the chair of the Parole Board here. You implied that the Parole Board of Canada had condoned the gentleman seeking out sex workers for sex after he was released, but Ms. Oades was very clear when she was here that they did not approve that. I just want to clarify for the record that the Parole Board of Canada did not approve this offender to seek out sex workers or paid sex after he was released.
You've been quite outspoken on this case, and I'm just wondering if you saw any of the information that was before the Parole Board, reports from the case management team, the risk assessment, psychological reports. Were you present for the hearings? Do you have any of that information available to you?
Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual
The only information I have about this case is the public record, that is, the decision of the board.
Liberal
Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual
With regard to this case, the only documents I have consulted are simply the public documents in Eustachio Gallese's file, namely the board's decision of September 2019.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
When you were a Parole Board member, did you make your decisions based on news reports or did you base your decisions on the information that was in front of you?
Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual
Of course, when board members receive quality information to make decisions, it is not in the newscasts.
In any event, my comments on this matter relate specifically to the decision made by the board members. Therefore, they are not based on news. I have consulted the decision and you are indicating that it was not approved by the board members. However, they did not take any action to protect society when they learned of this new information.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
But, Mr. Blackburn, you weren't present at the hearings. You don't have access to any of that information, so with respect, you're speaking from a place of hearsay and news reports. What happened to this young woman was absolutely tragic, and none of us condone what happened. We sent our sympathies to the family.
We also know that they are extremely rare. In 2014, there was a gentleman found guilty of murder who had been released, and Mr. Harper never even called an inquiry on it. It was Christopher Falconer.
No one condones those kinds of murders, but we also know—the correctional investigator was here—that they're rare. They're extreme, and we don't make policy based on a few bad decisions.
You made a statement that this murder could have been avoided if the appointment process were the way it was before. Is that what you said? I wrote down, “We could have avoided this murder because of the appointment process.” Is that correct?
Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual
I'm just making a point of clarification. This is not based on news, but on the decision of the board members. It is different from being at a hearing or reading the decision. At the hearing, there are additional elements.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Are you saying that the appointment process was responsible for this murder?
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
In Quebec, eight out of nine appointments were men and six out of nine were Conservatives, so you're saying that Conservative staffers, donors and candidates make better candidates for the Parole Board than the women, indigenous peoples and visible minorities. That's what Mr. Paul-Hus implied on Tuesday. So these people...it's independent. They are getting training.
I'm just curious why a Conservative candidate makes a better person on the Parole Board than the people who have been appointed.
Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual
First of all, I was a Conservative candidate—
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Mr. Chair, I would like to ask my colleague to withdraw her words. That is absolutely not what I said on Tuesday. There may have been a translation problem. I never said that the Conservatives were better than women or indigenous people, and that has nothing to do with the issue.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
I just bring members' attention to the motion that was referred by the House. It includes a review of the changes brought about by the government in 2017 to the board's nomination process with a view to recommending measures to be taken to ensure another tragedy such as this never happens.
I think it would be more useful if we could not reference Liberal appointments or Conservative appointments but stick with the nomination process. There appears to have been a change in the process in 2017. I think the utility of our deliberations might be more helpful if we steered clear of whether these were Conservative nominations or Liberal nominations or themes and variations thereon.
With that, I will not restrict the member's line of questioning, but that's the opinion of the chair.
Liberal