Public Safety Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I only have a few seconds left, so thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Bittle.

Ms. Michaud, please, you have two and a half minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have three questions for our witnesses and will ask them all at once. Take your time answering.

You talked about the need to focus on the people who are pulling the strings, the heads of the stolen vehicle export rings. It is often said that the CBSA's mandate is focused more on imports than exports, and that it is more concerned with what is coming into the country than what is going out, because what is going out is no longer our responsibility.

Do you think its mandate should be changed in particular because of the rise in vehicle thefts in Canada in order to look more closely at what is being exported? I imagine there are a lot of other things that are being exported illegally.

[Yannick Desmarais]

Since 2018, we have been working with our partners at the port of Montreal, including the Sûreté du Québec and the RCMP, and we notice every week that much more attention is given to what is imported than what is exported, naturally, to protect the country. That prevents us from doing more, and the volume is lower.

[Michel Patenaude]

I would add that, since March 2022, we have been working with the Montreal city police and the CBSA to enhance their ability to search containers. One of the goals of our investigations is to stop the vehicle thieves and dismantle their ring before the vehicles even get to the port.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

To your knowledge, do the criminals who export stolen vehicles need someone on site at the port of Montreal to facilitate their operation, or does that happen before the container is sealed?

[Yannick Desmarais]

No, our investigations show that is not the case. We also need to boost the CBSA's ability to check containers.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

You talked about young people who get caught and who are drawn into criminal networks. We are wondering whether sentences should be increased or minimum sentences should be reinstated. Do those young people consider the risk of getting caught and going to jail before they commit those crimes? Do you think they are aware of the sentence they could receive or do they get drawn in without thinking of the consequences?

[Yannick Desmarais]

Not only are they aware, but they film themselves inside the vehicles while being followed by the police to make fun of the situation. As Mr. Patenaude said earlier, we need to focus on educating those young people, while also focusing on enforcement. Both are important.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you.

Mr. MacGregor, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll just limit myself to one question and I'll invite both of you to weigh in.

In our first hour of today's meeting, we heard from representatives of the Montreal Port Authority. They were discussing some of the legislative limitations they have. Of course, our ports are creatures of the federal government. They operate under a federal government mandate. Transport Canada is a federal agency that's also heavily involved.

From your perspective, when you look at the important role that port authorities play in Canada, do you think it would be helpful for this committee to recommend some legislative changes? Do you think it would be helpful in your investigations to have port authorities have a more active role in this? Do you see any limitation in what their current role is and what you wish they could have in terms of more inspections of containers, etc.?

I just want to get your perspective on that.

[Michel Patenaude]

I can start.

One of the recommendations of our president of the ADPQ, Monsieur Brochet, was to address the declaration on the manifest, so having some kind of legislation concerning that, because we know that the manifest can be changed once the.... That's one of the aspects, and we agree with that as well. That's another aspect that could be helpful, as you said.

I think we have to continue working at Project Rechercher. In our investigations, and for the SPVM as well, we all work closely with the CBSA, but also with the port authority in Montreal. It's important to keep that line of communication going up and helping. Addressing, as Mr. Brochet said, the manifest problem would be definitely helpful.

[Yannick Desmarais]

To add to what Mr. Patenaude said, I think it would be extremely important to establish a period of time before the container can enter the port so we can examine the goods. For example, a period of 72 hours could be set to make sure the information gets to the police services or the CBSA to allow for more checks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you.

Thank you to our witnesses. It's very informative. We appreciate it.

Just before we get to the adjournment, I wanted to mention that we shouldn't forget that the Ukrainian delegation is coming in right after.

Also, Mr. Caputo, you wanted to raise something.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Yes, thank you, Chair. I'll be fairly brief.

My understanding—and I recognize I'm new to the committee here—is that Mr. Schiefke and Ms. Michaud have both suggested that we have further witnesses appear. I'm wondering if there is an appetite for the committee with unanimous consent to extend this study for two extra meetings, given that I think we would be prepared to put forward some more witnesses as well. I'm not sure if anybody wants to discuss that at this point.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Chair, it's my understanding that you are still having trouble filling all of the existing meeting spots with witnesses, so I think we can accommodate.... We still have two more meetings. Is that correct?

[The Clerk]

We have two more meetings. One meeting is already full, but waiting for some invitations. For the last meeting, the sixth one, both ministers are invited.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

There would be a second panel then, so we could have room for.... Ms. Michaud's would be for the Minister of Transport, and that would be accommodated there. Mr. Schiefke has suggested one. If the Conservatives would like to suggest one and the NDP, we could fit it in the second panel. I don't think two extra meetings when we've had panels with only two or three witnesses...we can accommodate within.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Mr. Shipley, go ahead please.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I'll be quick because I know we do have other things to get going to.

I think we've learned a lot in this study. I think Mr. Schiefke brought up some good points. He missed quite a few manufacturers. I know we had Toyota stay after one meeting, and it was incredibly informative. I know it was a cold day, but I went out in the parking lot with them. It was good. We learned a lot.

I don't want to rush through this. I want to do this properly. I know Ms. Michaud mentioned perhaps we could have some staff, not just the minister, from that area also attend. I think two meetings is very reasonable. We're not asking a lot. This has been a very informative study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Can I make a suggestion? Can you leave it with the clerk and I, and we'll take whoever your request for witnesses and see if we can build it into an appropriate schedule. Is that okay? If it's two, it's two. If it's three, it's three. It doesn't matter to me. Is that okay, Mr. Caputo?

Ms. Michaud, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you for the suggestion. Since I suggested the study, I am certainly in favour of extending it.

If I may ask the clerk, would you like us to send you other witness suggestions that have not been discussed today so they can be added to the list? Did I understand correctly?

[The Clerk]

Yes, you could do that.

That being said, not all the witnesses on your list have been selected for the committee's study as of yet. So we can either consider new witnesses or take names from the current list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Ms. O'Connell, go ahead please.