Public Safety Committee on May 9th, 2024

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's very clearly not a point of order.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I am speaking, and it's not your decision; it's the chair's.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's why I'm asking the chair to intervene—

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Don't interrupt me.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—because the rules—

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Don't speak over one another.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Mr. McKinnon, is it on relevance?

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I thought so.

I would like to point out on the matter Mr. Genuis seems to be promoting, which is that we should go and take up a certain order of business, we'd be in that order of business right now if we could have come to a vote on his motion to do so. We would have been in this order of business 20 minutes ago, dealing with exactly what he purports to want to deal with, but he persists and persists and persists in talking out the clock so that we don't actually get to make a decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. McKinnon.

Mr. Genuis, you had a point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, Chair. On a point of order, I suspect that the intention of the government is to try to move things in camera and not have transparency around these discussions. On the point of order—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—would there be unanimous consent to deem the motion I have moved adopted?

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Go ahead on a point of order, Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

It would be wonderful if, in accordance with the rules of order, which respect decorum, Mr. Genuis would not make implications or assertions as to what our position is or what our views are—again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

Mr. Genuis, continue.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

With all due respect, there are parameters of decorum. There are certain things that members cannot say about each other, but “he said something that I didn't find very nice” is not a matter of order.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

That's up to the discretion of the chair, not you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No, there are principles and rules that establish how we operate, and, Mr. Noormohamed, you are not the chair, and the chair has not sustained, I think, a single point of order from—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

From anyone—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, that's correct.

Anyway, you're not on the microphone, so having a conversation is probably not very productive from the perspective of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

This is not very helpful to anyone.

Why don't we get back, Mr. Genuis, to what you're—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's correct. I'm sorry.

I heard that there might be an appetite to adopt my motion. If there's unanimous consent to do so, then I'm happy to give that unanimous consent for my motion to be deemed adopted, but I also know that when I finish speaking, there is a significant risk that Liberals will try to move in camera and bury discussions of these issues. I certainly don't want to see that happen either.

As I said, Conservatives will use the procedural tools that we have available to us to insist that the committee report on the Bernardo transfer. Members can reflect on whether they want to continue to try to hide the report on the Bernardo transfer or whether they want to allow that work to happen.

I'm happy for my motion to be adopted by unanimous consent, if that's the will of the committee, or to proceed to make the substantial arguments that I would like to make with respect to the Bernardo prison transfer. Look, inevitably, this would go faster if it weren't for the repeated interruptions.

Having read the letter from Tim Danson, I want to highlight that there are a few different things going on at the same time with this issue. There was the question of the transfer itself. There was the question of information that was shared or not shared. What I want to comment on first is just the broader principle of victims' rights within our justice system.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'd like to raise a point of order here, Chair, just for clarification. We have reached 10:15. I'm seeking clarification here because ordinarily this is the time that we would be ending our meeting.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, although we have reached our normal termination, I would appreciate being able to vote on this matter before we adjourn.