Evidence of meeting #106 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald
Excuse me. Just a moment, please.
Mr. McKinnon has the floor, Mr. Genuis. Let him finish, and then we'll go to the clerk. Thank you.
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
I would just comment that the decisions that are published and are public are the ones that are passed. Decisions that are negatived are not public.
May 9th, 2024 / 8:55 a.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Simon Larouche
For clarification, in the minutes of the subcommittee, the contents of the decisions are not in the minutes. The report was shared with the members by email. However, at our last meeting, the report was tabled to be adopted, and then the report, the content of the report, is in the minutes of our last SECU meeting.
8:55 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Chair, from what I understand, the minutes are public. The minutes would show that the subcommittee adopted its report, but it doesn't have the content of the report. It's in the same way that when a committee adopts a substantive report on a particular issue, the whole report doesn't appear in the minutes. It appears in the minutes that the report was adopted. Then the report is seen once it's tabled in the House.
8:55 a.m.
The Clerk
You are right. However, when a committee meeting is making a decision, even though it's in camera, afterward the minutes will show the decision. However, for a subcommittee, since their decisions are rolled towards the main committee, those decisions made in camera are not in the minutes of the subcommittee, but they appear when they are moved during the regular committee proceedings.
8:55 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Okay. That's very interesting. I didn't know the subcommittee had different rules.
In any event, though, in this case the subcommittee report is public because it's in the meeting minutes for Monday.
8:55 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Sure. I'm happy to.
That was interesting, though, Clerk. Thank you. It's something I didn't know.
The point is, though, about the Bernardo prison transfer, which we are able to talk about and which is a matter of public discussion. It is a matter of public record now that the subcommittee report was made public when it was moved at the last meeting. It is a matter of public record that the subcommittee report contained no mention of the completion of the report on the Bernardo transfer—
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Mr. Genuis just said that the contents of the subcommittee report were made public. Does that not run contrary to what the clerk just said?
If he wishes to discuss that, why don't we take this in camera?
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald
Mr. Genuis, just wait. There's a question for the clerk.
Go ahead, Clerk.
8:55 a.m.
The Clerk
If you please, the content of the report is now public because it was moved at our last committee meeting by the chair to be approved, and then there were debates, so it's in the minutes. The content of the report is now public.
8:55 a.m.
Conservative
8:55 a.m.
The Clerk
Since last Monday.
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
The contents of the subcommittee report are now public.
8:55 a.m.
The Clerk
Yes.
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
The deliberations that he just noted in the minutes are public.
8:55 a.m.
Conservative
8:55 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
You're saying that the minutes are public. I want clarity, because what we've heard is that the minutes and the report are public. If that is correct, we've seen the report, but we've not seen the minutes. If he's referring to the minutes, then those should never have been made public, correct?
8:55 a.m.
The Clerk
Well, the minutes are public. It's the script, the blues of the meeting, that are not public, because it was in camera for the subcommittee, so there's a difference.
The minutes are referring to the decisions made by the subcommittee and also by the committee, but for a subcommittee, we don't put the decisions in the minutes. They go forward through a report to the main committee.
9 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Okay. It seems that we're treading pretty close to where what happened in the subcommittee in detail is going to be discussed, and that's fine. If that's what Mr. Genuis would like to do, perhaps we could take that conversation in camera.
9 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
To be clear, I was not at the subcommittee meeting. I do not know what was discussed. My only knowledge of what happened at the subcommittee is based on the now publicly available report, which was published in the minutes of Monday's main committee meeting. That report from the subcommittee to the main committee contains certain recommendations about the agenda of the committee going forward.
I could not speak of other matters from the subcommittee because I was not there. I heard nothing. I only know what's—