Public Safety Committee on May 9th, 2024

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

We have a point of order.

Go ahead, Ms. Michaud.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As Mr. Genuis said, he was not at the meeting of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. He could simply stop alluding to what was said or not said during that meeting. I was at that meeting. I have been attending the subcommittee and committee meetings for more than four years. We have always worked by consensus.

If there are things missing from the subcommittee report, it is because the people at the subcommittee decided not to include them in the report. The vice-chair of the committee is a Conservative. He was there. If something is missing from the report, it is because he agreed not to include it in the report.

I see that the Conservatives clearly do not agree on that and they are not satisfied with the performance of their Conservative critic at the subcommittee, but that is not my problem, nor the committee's problem, nor the subcommittee's problem. If they want to amend the subcommittee's report because they disagree with the agenda that was set, that is not our problem. We have decided to take up the agenda again once we have cleared what has been set in the agenda.

I see that in the Conservative Party's proposed amendment, they have decided not to amend the first two items, which refer Bill S-210 for study. The witnesses invited to participate in that study are here today.

The Conservatives seem to agree with studying the bill, unless they have changed their minds, which may be the case. I propose that we move immediately to the study of Bill S‑210. The Chair even saw fit to allow us, during the second hour, to take a moment to talk about upcoming work.

Out of respect for the witnesses who are here, out of respect for the other members of the committee and out of respect for the members of the subcommittee who reached a consensus on the report we are talking about today, I think that we could come back to the agenda, vote on this motion and question the witnesses who are here to talk about Bill S‑210.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

I'm going to make a recommendation. I'm looking down at the witnesses who are sitting through this. I'm wondering if the committee would agree to release the witnesses and move in camera to discuss the subcommittee.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, I don't want to move to in camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you.

Mr. Genuis, you can continue. Please try to stay on topic.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

I will say, Chair, that I have the floor and I have barely been able to say a word in a cohesive way because of all the absurd points of order. Given these interruptions, I think it would be reasonable to release the witnesses. I just do not want us to go in camera. I think this is something that we need to do publicly.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, we didn't have a ruling on Madame Michaud's request to you. I think it would be important for the committee to understand how you intend to rule on the request that Ms. Michaud has made, which is not only a very valid one but one that would also be beneficial to the functioning of the committee.

As somebody who served with her on this committee a year and a half to two years ago, when a lot of things got done, as Mr. Shipley will remember, and we worked cordially and properly, I will say that it would be great for us to hear from these witnesses who are here.

Frankly, it would also be good for the mental health of many of the members on this committee to be able to move to what we are actually here to do.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'll proceed, given that I have the floor, Chair.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

No. He has not responded to my point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

He had the floor, so I have to let him continue.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

You haven't ruled on her request.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

No, but I'm coming back to him first.

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I would just say to Ms. Michaud's point that if there is agreement of the committee, I think that given the interruptions and given the nature of the direction of this meeting, it would be reasonable to release the witnesses, but if somebody doesn't want that to happen, that's fine too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Mr. Genuis, please continue.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

All right, something strange is happening, but that's for others to deal with.

To the substance of the motion and why I moved it, in response to Ms. Michaud's point, I think it's important to underline that the subcommittee cannot bind the main committee. The subcommittee can undertake deliberations that I was not a part of and that most members of this committee were not a part of. We come here as members of Parliament representing our constituents with individual convictions, and the positions of one subcommittee can't bind the actions of another committee.

Chair, our position is that we need to complete our report—

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

We're going to suspend for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

The meeting has resumed.

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I hope that we'll have a chance to put the substantive points on the record with limited interruption.

I want to read into the record a letter from Tim Danson, who's a representative of the families of the victims, to frame our view on why it is important for us not only to have heard from the families and their representatives but also to turn that testimony into—

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I have a point order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

I have a point of order from Mr. McKinnon.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Again, that is not relevant to the motion before us. The motion before us is to go to a specific order of business so that we can discuss these very items.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Can I respond to that point of order, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

You can, if it's a point of order.

Do you want a point of order?

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I believe I'm entitled to respond to the point of order, am I not? He raised a point of order.