Evidence of meeting #106 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I think members know that you can't move dilatory motions on points of order. You can move a dilatory motion if you have the floor, but you can't when you don't have the floor.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you very much, Chair.
I was in the process of reading a letter from Mr. Danson explaining the really shocking circumstances around the prison transfer of Mr. Bernardo, the lack of information provided to families and the cover-up I think we saw within the system in relation to this—
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Mr. Genuis used the word “cover-up”. For the purpose of the discussion, I'd like to know whether he was reading the letter or whether that was his word. He said he was reading the letter, but then he used the word “cover-up”. I just want it to be clear so that we have clarity for the record.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Sure. I'm happy to. That is my own comment, absolutely. I have been reading the letter and at times interjecting some comments. I hope it will be clear in the record which parts are quotation and which aren't. I will try to specify clearly.
I am about to resume the reading of this letter, which describes the circumstances in terms of what families were told and not told, etc. I think—this is Garnett Genuis talking—this is very shocking content and would be deeply disturbing to Canadians, as we've seen in the public response to these matters already, especially from the families and those who are part of the communities that were most affected by these crimes.
The text of the letter continues as follows:
Yet apparently, the Frenches were advised on the morning of Mr. Bernardo's transfer without any explanation. That is, they were not advised that he was being transferred from a maximum-security penitentiary to a medium-security penitentiary—rather in the morning of May 29, 2023, they were advised that Mr. Bernardo was being transferred and by early to mid-[morning], they were told that the transfer had been completed. Ms. Mahaffy was left with the distinct impression that the transfer had already taken place, or at [least] was imminent.
Regardless, the decision had been made. It was a fait accompli and there was nothing anyone could do about it. The decision to delay informing myself as counsel and the families until the day of the transfer and while the transfer was in progress, is, with respect, troubling. Given my role as counsel for the past three decades, it was incumbent of CSC to relay this critical development to me in a timely manner so that I could inform the families. This was not regular administrative news. A development of such pivotal importance came as a shock to the families and ought to have been processed through counsel. Had anyone considered that this transfer was done just over two weeks prior to the anniversary date of Leslie Mahaffy's abduction and murder?
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I have a point of order. I have a couple of points.
Mr. Genuis is popping his Ps right into the microphone. I was wondering if he could also interject into his remarks, if this is truly the issue he claims it is and a matter of top priority for the Conservative Party, why, when Anne Kelly was here, they brought a motion on the carbon tax. She was here just a couple of months ago. Why the hypocrisy? Why is he using this opportunity to filibuster a bill they claim to support?
I'm just curious. It's my community.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
I have a number of points to respond to that.
Conservatives have insisted on and were able to give the families an opportunity to appear. He mentions Commissioner Kelly. We've asked the commissioner important questions in relation to this—
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
The member was heard, and now he's welcome to hear my response.
I suspect he's distorting the flow of that particular meeting. I wasn't there.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Look, if Mr. Bittle has another point of order, then he can raise another point of order. Thank you.
Mr. Bittle had strong views on crosstalk previously, and his views have—
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
It actually was on. It was turned on, and then it was turned off.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I'm happy to continue if there won't be interruptions.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald
Mr. Bittle and Mr. Genuis, please get back to what you were talking about.
I have a point of order from Mr. Noormohamed.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Bittle raised a point of order. Mr. Genuis asserted that he wasn't there. He asserted that what Mr. Bittle said happened didn't actually happen.
Perhaps we could suspend and look at the blues to see what actually happened in that meeting so that we have confirmation that indeed, as Mr. Bittle says, a carbon tax motion was brought during Anne Kelly's testimony. If that is in fact what happened, then it would be important for everyone who is watching this, for everyone in this committee, to be aware of the facts—given that neither Mr. Genuis nor I were there.
Perhaps we can all have the same basis of facts. Perhaps we could suspend, and the clerk could look at the blues for that meeting and confirm for the committee what actually happened.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
I did not definitively assert regarding what did or didn't happen in the meeting. I said that I highly suspect that Mr. Bittle is presenting, let's say, an account of the facts that differs slightly from a more objective account of the facts. If the member wants to provide evidence to the contrary....
I can say that Conservatives have, of course, asked important questions to the commissioner.
The core issue we're talking about at this point is actually the families being hurt and the families being included. It's about the testimony and the experiences of the families, not—
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
I have a point of order.
As a celebration in futility, let me once again raise the point of relevance.
I would also note, as a further futility, on the matter that Mr. Genuis is striving so hard not to get to a vote on to take us to an order of business, we would actually be in that order of business right now if we were able to proceed with the agenda.