Evidence of meeting #109 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was registry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I thank the member for his question, Mr. Chair.
As I mentioned earlier, it will ultimately be up to Parliament to pass the bill with any potential amendments.
However, I would say that the bill ensures independence for the commissioner in terms of decisions related to enforcing the regime. The commissioner will decide whether or not to pursue an investigation and whether a case should result in administrative monetary penalties or criminal charges. All of that work will be done independently—
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I'm sorry to interrupt. I don't have a lot of time.
The commissioner would have independence of action. That's clear. However, they would not have independence in terms of their obligation to be accountable.
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
The bill provides that the commissioner will have to submit an annual report to the minister, which the minister will have to table in Parliament.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Then I guess the commissioner would be accountable to the minister.
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Ultimately, they would also be accountable to Parliament.
Bloc
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
The bill provides for consultation with recognized political parties on the appointment of the commissioner.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I'm talking about the bill overall, specifically about funding, foreign agents and political parties.
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
The political processes set out in the bill include the nomination of candidates for political parties. Foreign activity related to a political party's nomination process would need to be registered with the commissioner.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Villemure.
Mr. MacGregor, please go ahead for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
At risk of repetition, I want to delve again into the definition of “arrangement”.
Just for argument's sake, let's say that I'm an ordinary private citizen and, by virtue of my last name, I have an association with the Scottish government and I communicate with a public office holder about a proceeding in a legislative body. I'm just trying to see what level of association would trigger my having to register.
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It's a good question to make what I think is an important point: This legislation isn't about regulating what people can say or not say in advocating for positions. I want to make sure that is completely clear. It imposes a degree of transparency when that advocacy is being made on behalf of a foreign state or in association with a foreign state. The best answer to that is if you are a private citizen, Mr. MacGregor, and you want to meet with a deputy minister because you think that exposition by your government would be helpful, and you're not doing it on behalf of a foreign state but you're doing it out of love for your country, for example, that doesn't require registration.
However, when you have an understanding with a foreign state that you're doing that for them or in association with them, that is what triggers the requirement to register.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you.
To go on to proposed section 27, which is about regulations, can you walk me through those in terms of the different classes? Is there obviously going to be a listed difference between someone who has an association versus someone who's acting overtly under the direction of a foreign entity?
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Proposed section 27 sets out the regulations. Proposed paragraph 27(a) adds potential classes of individuals who would fit the definition of “public office holder”. It's meant to identify classes, not to identify countries or organizations. It's meant to make sure that there's enough flexibility in the legislation, through regulation, that if we believe that a certain group of people should be captured by the registration obligation, there's an ability in the regulations to do that.
The definition of “public office holder” is well known. It's established in the Lobbying Act. It is fairly broad, but if we were to come to realize that it would need to capture other classes, this would be the way to do it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.
We go now to Mr. Cooper for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
For the public safety officials, the coming into force of the foreign influence registry is subject to the issuance of an order in council by the cabinet. Is that correct?
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That's right.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
There's no date prescribed for when that order in council would be issued, is there?
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That's correct.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
There is no date, so it would be correct to say that there's nothing in the legislation that would prevent the government from dithering in issuing that order in council.
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It is up to the Governor in Council to decide when that is.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Then the answer is, yes, there's nothing to prevent the government from dithering.
Director General, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes. It's up to them to decide when.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Okay. Thank you.
Much has been left to regulation, including with respect to administrative penalties as well as the contents of what must be disclosed to the commissioner. Once the bill passes—assuming that it does, and I think it will—is there going to be another lengthy consultation process for what should be included in the regulations?
With respect to other bills that have been introduced and passed, we have seen that they have been been delayed in implementation because of another extensive consultation process. Is that in the works?