Evidence of meeting #110 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was csis.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
That's great. Thank you.
I do want to say, Balpreet, that when the minister does appear and when CSIS does appear, I will specifically ask about that information-sharing co-operation.
Thank you.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Gaheer.
I now give the floor to Mr. Villemure for six minutes.
5:30 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our guests, Mr. Tohti, Mr. Therchin and Mr. Singh.
I'll start with you, Mr. Tohti, and then go to Mr. Therchin.
You have actively supported the creation of a foreign influence registry. Does the government's proposal in Bill C-70 meet your expectations?
5:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project
As I said, it is the right direction, and it is the first step. We have been trying to get some sort of legislative action on this because China has been very active, not just in Canada but in many of our allies' countries. For that reason, some countries have already taken some actions, but in Canada, it took some time.
At least we have this opportunity. There are a number of amendments required. When we have something, we can improve it. We look at the issue from this perspective because our communities.... One of our community members, Huseyin Celil, has been in a Chinese jail for 17 years as the first victim of transnational repression. For that purpose and reason, we have one bill right now tabled, and we prefer to work on this bill and, with our suggestions and recommendations, to improve this bill down the road. At the very least, we have to pass this bill as soon as possible.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
If you had a suggestion to make to improve the registry, what would it be?
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project
We should go one step ahead of what Australia, the U.K. and the U.S. have right now because it is quite outdated. At least now we are working on this bill. For that reason, we can study those other countries' legislative provisions, and we can improve it from their experience and strengthen it.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Therchin, could you answer the same question, please?
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Canada Tibet Committee
I echo the point of my colleague and friend, Mehmet. I think the timing is of concern. We need to get this passed and implemented before the next election.
We are part of a coalition that is actively working on the foreign influence registry act, which includes an activist from Canada and Hong Kong named Gloria Fung, who will be testifying, I think, in a couple of days here at this same committee.
I would defer to my colleague Mehmet Tohti and to Gloria Fung in the upcoming days.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
If you had a suggestion to make to improve the registry, what would it be?
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Canada Tibet Committee
Again, with colleagues from Hong Kong leading this discussion, one of the points raised in our discussion was the definition of proxies in the foreign influence registration act. If possible, that needs to be clearly defined.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
June 3rd, 2024 / 5:35 p.m.
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
I'll go back to the initial point I made, which is the fact that international relations can play a role. We need to take a look at that.
I know that in England, they have a two-tier system, and you can pick countries of more concern and less concern. I don't agree with that approach.
Another suggestion I have is.... The transparency commissioner being a cabinet appointment could be a problem. I think we need to make the commissioner as independent as possible.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Mr. Singh, I get the impression that you do not believe that the commissioner's independence is assured to a satisfactory extent, given the wording proposed in Bill C‑70.
5:35 p.m.
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
I think it would be better if it were not at the whim of cabinet. Yes.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
All right.
Mr. Tohti, I have the same question for you. Does the commissioner's independence appeal to you?
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project
The commissioner should be independent, period, and should be in line with our democratic norms and accountability. This is the part of the national security issue for Canada, and it is related to our future generations.
For that reason, we should keep this commissioner far away from political disputes and keep that person impartial. For that reason, it is important.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Would that impartiality be similar to that of the Auditor General?
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project
I don't know how far we can go technically, but the impartiality of the commissioner is crucial.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
So that's a critical element, a requirement.
Mr. Therchin, I have the same question for you about the commissioner's independence.
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Canada Tibet Committee
I think everyone agrees that the commissioner should be independent. I think this whole discussion on foreign interference has involved a lot of consultations with the various parties and stakeholders involved. The idea of keeping the commissioner independent is very important for everyone, including for witnesses like us.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I think all parties have agreed that this is in the public interest and something needs to be done.
Mr. Tohti, do you have a suggestion with respect to sharing information?
5:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project
The first time the media reported on unknown vehicles chasing or following me was in 2007, and 17 years have passed since then. Last year at this time, one government official, who happened to be at the same occasion as me, called me after I left to say two cars were following me and there was a direct threat my safety and security.
It is crucial, because we are taking on China. We're talking about China, which is one of the most notorious and brutal regimes in the world. The Chinese government is deploying tons of ways and means just to attack and silence us. Therefore, if there is any crucial information that relates to our safety and the security of our family members here or back home, we should know and be alerted. That is crucial.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses for joining us today as we take a deep dive into Bill C-70.
I want to start with Mr. Therchin and Mr. Tohti.
I was taking notes when you both made your opening statements, particularly with regard to the need for a definition of “transnational oppression”. I'm trying to figure out, when we come to a stage where we're considering amendments, where to best fit this in. This bill amends a number of different existing statutes and also creates a new one. However, I want to draw your attention to the fact that, in this bill, there are important amendments to the Security of Information Act. There are going to be new clauses to go after intimidation, threats or violence committed on behalf of a foreign entity. There are going to be amendments about committing an indictable offence on behalf of a foreign entity, about omitting the fact that you are working for a foreign entity, or about interfering in the political process on behalf of a foreign entity. A lot of these—in fact, all of them—have quite serious punishments associated with them.
If you want to submit a brief to this committee, that's great. We can get it later on. However, is there anything you want that is missing in those I covered? What are we missing? This seems to cover a lot of what you said in your opening statements. I want to make sure we're getting all of our bases covered.
I'll start with you, sir.
5:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Canada Tibet Committee
I think the bill covers a lot of things. As a human rights activist, I find it quite encouraging, and I mentioned this in my opening remarks. Also, the analytical reports submitted, I think, just yesterday by Sarah Teich and Hannah Taylor mention that many of the amendments in the legislation are quite encouraging.
Having said that, the analysis in the report points out, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, the lack of a definition for “transnational repression”. I think the aspect here is, as you mentioned, that foreign entities are common in transnational repression as well as in foreign interference. However—at least based on what some of the available literature seems to suggest—the target groups are different for foreign interference and transnational repression. In cases of foreign interference, the target group seems to be more within a state structure, whereas, in cases of transnational repression, it is the diaspora communities, such as Uyghurs and Tibetans.
That was the reason. Otherwise, we actually find it very encouraging.