Public Safety Committee on Aug. 28th, 2024

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Caputo can repeat those phrases and those words. It doesn't make them true.

What you have here is a case where two individuals were arrested and are now in custody facing nine very serious criminal charges. This was a situation that could have presented a serious risk to the safety of Canadians. CSIS and the RCMP and other police partners did phenomenal work.

I am fortunate enough as the Minister of Public Safety, as I said, to be updated and briefed from time to time on some of these significant cases. That was the case for me on July 24. Four days later, these people were in police custody. I saw up close the very effective work that the RCMP, CSIS and others did. On the premise that somehow this person flew under the radar, this person was arrested, facing criminal charges and in jail before any risk was presented to Canadians.

That's exactly the kind of work that we rely on our police services, the RCMP and their partners, like CSIS, to do every day. I'm proud of that work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Minister.

We go now to Mr. MacDonald.

Please go ahead for six minutes, sir.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today and for all your surrounding support.

Minister, it's obviously a red flag for Canada and our government and all Canadians, and it's reassuring to hear some of your remarks. I do take issue sometimes when the opposition members say that other international security agencies knew more than we did. Certainly I'm one to say I'm not really too worried about who knows what. As long as we foil the terrorist plot in this country, it doesn't matter. I'm glad the Five Eyes all work together, including Canada, in every regard.

Minister, our interest in the details in this case is obvious, but we also want to ensure procedural fairness for successful prosecution. Can you elaborate on the processes we're going to follow here, in layman's terms, so Canadians can understand how we're going to get to the end of this and ensure it never happens again?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. MacDonald, thank you for the question. Thank you for joining us, I hope, from the great province of Prince Edward Island this morning.

You're absolutely right. As my colleague the Minister of Immigration has said, and I have said the same thing, there needs to be a review of all of the steps surrounding this case, with the relevant dates, to understand exactly who knew what and when and whether changes or adjustments need to be made in terms of these screening protocols. The officials with me today are working on precisely that.

Our adversaries, threat actors who are seeking to do harm to Canada or to do harm to Canadians, are constantly evolving their measures and adjusting their measures. CSIS has talked about this publicly. Obviously the portfolios of Public Safety and the other agencies are evolving to ensure we have the very best measures in place for the safety of Canadians.

Mr. MacDonald, on your specific question around what reviews are taking place to ensure that we have this information, perhaps Mr. Gallivan from the Canada Border Services Agency or Ms. Lloyd from CSIS can talk briefly about the work they're doing. Of course, our colleagues at the immigration department are doing the same work and in some cases overlapping our work.

Perhaps Mr. Gallivan could add something.

[Ted Gallivan, Executive Vice-President, Canada Border Services Agency]

In terms of the review, we're both reviewing these specific individuals and backchecking what occurred and whether procedures were followed, and if procedures were followed, what changes to procedures may be required. We're also taking a representative sample of closed files that were similarly screened positive to see, in light of the information available today, whether changes to the procedures are needed.

As the minister said, there are three lines of defence. The CBSA's first involvement is actually in the security screening process before people are issued a visa or status in Canada. In 2023, concern of various levels was expressed about 7,000 people based on that process. Liaison officers are situated around the world, and roughly 7,500 people were “no boarded” before they even got on a plane to Canada. In 2023, there were 35,000 people who were allowed to leave but who did not enter the country, and roughly 3,500 people, because of serious inadmissibility concerns, not just national security but organized crime and others, were stopped.

What I'm trying to say is that we do have checks and balances that work thousands of times a year, but we're asking ourselves the same tough questions about whether procedures were followed and whether, if they were and this individual was not caught, different procedures could catch them in the future.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, if there's time, perhaps Ms. Lloyd could talk about CSIS doing some of that work in partnership as well.

[Vanessa Lloyd, Interim Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, the service has important work in the security screening process. I can assure the committee that the existing procedures are robust and that we take the time and necessary effort with the information available at the time to treat every file seriously to make sure we adequately and effectively execute our mandate and authorities under the security screening mandate of the CSIS Act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. MacDonald, you have a minute and a quarter left.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

We've seen in other jurisdictions as recently as last week—and I believe that in Germany individuals have attempted to carry out terrorist acts in the name of the Islamic State.

Can anyone here speak to the experience or lessons we may have learned from that situation?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, I see that Commissioner Larkin has reached for a piece of paper, which may very well be because he has something he could add to that question.

Bryan, are you able to offer something?

[Deputy Commissioner Bryan Larkin, Deputy Commissioner, Specialized Policing Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

On that particular incident I have no specific information, but generally speaking, as this committee would be well aware, in terms of the national security context, terrorism cases across the globe are becoming much more complex and much more frequent. I do want to highlight, though, that within Canada, violent extremism is significantly on the rise. Between April 1, 2023, and March 31, 2024, the RCMP laid 83 charges against 25 accused persons. Seven of those were young persons, which is concerning around the ideology and the radicalization. When you look at this from a larger perspective, the number of charges, year over year, showed a 488% increase.

The global context is changing significantly. Within the RCMP we continue to evolve our integrated national security teams across the country, particularly located in large urban areas, to actually combat this, but as Mr. Gallivan and Madam Lloyd have indicated, the important partnership is with our Five Eyes partners and that global connection.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Fortin, over to you for six minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for joining us this morning. I think everyone agrees that the situation is rather alarming. Some shortcomings can most likely be blamed on individuals. Obviously we're not going to be able to determine that specifically at today's meeting, but we can at least try to get a little more clarity.

You told us that the normal security screening process had been followed. I imagine that is the case for both the father and the son. Is that correct?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

It is done in partnership with IRCC, because that is the department that receives the applications. The normal process was followed in the case of the father and son, as Mr. Gallivan stated.

As I said just now, we are doing an internal review to ensure that there is nothing in these two cases that the security agencies could have detected. If there was something, we will put additional measures in place. It's an ongoing process for us.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In the process, there is an initial screening, and IRCC officers then determine whether an enhanced screening is warranted.

Is that what you said, Minister?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

That's correct.

Departmental officers receive the applications and, in some cases, request an enhanced check. Mr. Gallivan could give you more details on that. They can ask CBSA or CSIS to do additional screening. That's how the cases are normally identified.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In the case of the two individuals in question, was this enhanced screening requested, first of all, and was it subsequently carried out?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Since your question goes to the heart of the matter, I will ask Mr. Gallivan to clarify that for you.

[Ted Gallivan]

I want to make it clear from the outset that we provide our colleagues with the criteria for referring cases to our security partners.

In the case of asylum seekers, for example, all adult claims are reviewed. A screening is done. In 2018 and 2021, the accused father went through that security screening process, which is shown in the chronology we presented this morning.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I should note that this includes biometric checks on RCMP databases, if I'm not mistaken.

[Ted Gallivan]

That's correct.

Our intelligence partners in Canada and abroad have six automated systems at our disposal. They already provide us with names, aliases, scenarios and dates. All of that is applied.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Gallivan.

I'm sorry to interrupt. I don't mean to be rude, but you know that our speaking time is limited. I have about two minutes left, so I want to use them effectively.

You say that for the father, the enhanced screening process was completed between 2018 and 2021.

Is the same true of the son?

[Ted Gallivan]

In the case of the father, there were two screenings, one in 2018 and one in 2021. As for the son, he was screened when he arrived, in 2024 if I'm not mistaken.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Okay.

The son applied for his first study permit in July 2019, according to the chronology you gave us, and he entered Canada in February 2020. You did an enhanced screening four years after his arrival.

Is that correct?

[Ted Gallivan]

For the son, I meant the screening that was done when he arrived at the Canadian border and made a refugee claim.