Public Safety Committee on Sept. 26th, 2024

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. The member is spreading falsehoods.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

That's not a point of order. In fact, you spread falsehoods at every committee and we have to listen to them. That's actually the point of this study.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. It's against the Standing Orders to insult members of Parliament. That is deeply insulting.

I have not spread any falsehoods today.

I ask that you enforce the Standing Orders, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

First of all—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

It is my point of order, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Excuse me.

We are suspended.

I will resume the meeting.

If you wish to make a point of order, please go ahead.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is against the Standing Orders to insult members of Parliament.

I have not made any falsehoods today or at this committee. I would appreciate if Ms. O'Connell would retract that statement. It is deeply insulting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

I think that the allegation that falsehoods were proposed is an opinion. I don't think that's an insult.

If Ms. O'Connell wishes to retract or make any adjustments, I will leave that up to her.

Carry on, Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Clearly, this study makes Conservatives nervous.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I also take offence to the comments from the member opposite. Simply stating that Conservatives are connected to Russian disinformation as she did is generalizing all of us at this table. I find that to be a direct insult to my esteemed colleagues and our integrity.

I would ask the member to withdraw that comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

I believe that's an opinion. She's entitled to have that opinion. I will offer once again that if she wishes to withdraw, she may, but she's just making an opinion.

Ms. O'Connell, carry on.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

It's not just my opinion. It has been widely reported that there are connections to Conservative influencers in Canada with links and ties.... In fact, there's a U.S. indictment talking about Russian ties to influencers in Canada, and they happen to be influencers who promote Conservative values and views. Now, who those Conservatives are who might be connected.... I think that's precisely—or not, if that's the case—why this committee should look at that. If there is misleading or incorrect information in the U.S. indictment or if assumptions are being made that are not accurate toward Conservatives, then there should be no fear of doing this very study.

When we discussed this motion, Mr. MacGregor made an amendment to include CEOs or representatives from the various platforms. I'm very grateful that he made that motion because of what the U.K. is experiencing. The High Commissioner referenced in his testimony violent demonstrations, anti-immigration demonstrations that were promoted by Russian state actors through alleged local far-right extremist supporters in the U.K. Facebook took down posts that were spreading fake anti-immigration rhetoric. I'm very anxious to talk about that with those representatives we've all agreed to have attend as witnesses. I want to hear what they're doing to address this. In the U.S. presidential campaign when certain communities are targeted with misleading disinformation and misinformation, lives can be put at risk. There's a real threat to public safety.

I think we, as Canadians and as a committee, have a right to look into whether violent extremists are being funded in this country by Russia to target communities or immigration and to see where the money is coming from and who it's going to. In the U.K., those demonstrations were to attack immigration and racialized communities. I think we owe it to Canadians to make this a very real priority and to hold social media platforms to account if they are allowing Russian-backed information and accounts to continue to run very dangerous rhetoric that could put our communities at risk.

I represent a very diverse community. I'd be very concerned if social media platforms allowed influencers who are Canadian and are being paid by Russia to allow any of my constituents or any Canadian across this country to be harmed because they didn't bother to look into the source of this. I'd be quite upset.

We, as a committee, should be held accountable if we don't take this as a very serious priority. It's precisely what they're calling for in the U.K. They're calling for governments to look into the tracking of the money, into travel patterns and into who is connected to Russian state actors who are coming into countries—Canada being one of them—to spread Russian propaganda for the sole purposes of undermining our democratic institutions, creating social disorder and bringing violence against communities that they want to harm. I think of our Ukrainian population in this country and how deeply concerned they must feel to know that Canadians who are posing as influencers, or are influencers online, are actually being paid to spread propaganda for Russia. I think we owe every single Ukrainian in this country the duty to look into this, to not wait another minute but to start bringing witnesses forward.

I will ask for a recorded vote, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. MacGregor, go ahead.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the comments made by Ms. O'Connell. I don't think anyone around the table underestimates the importance of this study, and that's why the original motion got a unanimous vote. I think it's important for the Canadian public listening right now to understand that all political parties represented at this table did support that motion.

A couple things come to mind, Mr. Chair. We have a subcommittee meeting that was supposed to be scheduled for the second hour today where we were going to meet to figure out our path forward. We do have two draft reports that I'm sure we would like to see completed, and there already have been a number of different study ideas introduced.

I want to make very clear that it's not that I don't see this as a priority. It's just that this motion introduced by Ms. O'Connell is forcing us as a committee into this binary choice, and I think we owe it to ourselves as a committee to have a discussion on the merits of all the motions on the table.

With that being stated, and with respect to what Ms. O'Connell is doing here, in an attempt to lower the temperature in the room and have a more fulsome discussion, I move that we adjourn the debate.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We will carry on. Is there any further discussion on the motion of Ms. O'Connell?

Mr. Lloyd, go ahead.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I move that we adjourn the meeting. Then we can move to subcommittee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

The motion to adjourn the meeting is in order.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

Is there any further discussion on Ms. O'Connell's motion?

Seeing none, I will call for a recorded vote, please.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I have a point of order.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

No, not during a vote. He already called the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We can't interrupt a vote for a point of order. I will recognize you immediately after the vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Lloyd, please go ahead on your point of order.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I asked to adjourn the meeting based on the misunderstanding that the motion to adjourn the debate had succeeded.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

By my count and from what I heard, the motion was defeated.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order.

I'm listening online. Could members remember not to speak when they're not recognized, for the sake of the interpreters? I couldn't even tell who was talking, as there were discussions going on. I could hear you and Ms. Dancho at the same time.

In fairness to interpreters, only one person should be speaking at a time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you. I appreciate that and we will endeavour to do exactly that.

The clerk has sent out a budget for this foiled terrorist plot in Toronto study. I believe you all should have a copy of it. We need an approval of that budget.

It's so moved by Ms. O'Connell, so we have a vote now on the floor.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

I believe that wraps up our business for this meeting and we will adjourn. We will commence the subcommittee meeting right away.

We are now adjourned.