Public Safety Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Mr. Shipley.

Are you moving an amendment, or is that just a point of addition?

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

It's just an addition.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Okay. We have a motion on the floor.

Madam Clerk, have you been able to distribute that?

[Hilary Smyth, Committee Clerk]

I'm working on it right now.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

We have hard copies for everyone in both languages.

Can we distribute those?

Colleagues, are there any further comments about the motion? We'll make sure we see it.

I just want to see if we need to let the witnesses go. I don't want to hold them here if there's going to be a lot of discussion. I just want to see. Did you guys wan to talk about it?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

We need to be able to see the motion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Yes.

Our hour is up.

We really do, as a committee, appreciate your coming to bring your perspective, Mr. Pugliese and Mr. Jolly. Thank you very much.

Very sincerely, I'm very sorry to hear about what you've been going through, Mr. Pugliese. Thank you for coming to share your side of the story. We appreciate it.

If there's anything further, please let the committee know.

We hope that all will be well with you.

Thank you very much for coming.

[David Pugliese]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

You are dismissed for now.

We will suspend briefly so that the parties can review the motion.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Colleagues, we will resume the meeting.

We'll take a speaking order if anyone would like to speak to the motion.

Mr. MacGregor, I believe you wanted to speak to the motion.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Chair, may I speak to this?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

You'll be next, Ms. O'Connell.

Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

When I first read through this, my opinion on the motion was that I thought most of it was okay, but I would like, in the first part, to have a very clear reference to the two very important studies that are before this committee, because, let's face it, foreign interference is a very clear and present danger to Canada right now. I would like to have references to both the Russian interference and disinformation campaign in Canada and also the electoral interference and criminal activities in Canada by agents of the government in India.

I suppose how I would change that first paragraph would be by having it say, “That, once the committee has concluded the study on Russian interference and disinformation campaigns in Canada and the study on electoral interference and criminal activities in Canada by agents of the government in India, the committee proceed to the following matters in order”. I'm fine with the rest of it.

I'm not sure if I want to specify the exact number of meetings at this point, because I think we as a committee need to figure out how many more we're going to need.

That would be my amendment to the motion.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Ms. O'Connell, go ahead on a point of order.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Madam Chair, I wanted to hear Mr. MacGregor's amendment, but regardless of that, notice of this motion was not given, and we were not on the topic of violent crime or on the topic of immigration, so I would argue this motion is actually not in order.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell. It is related to the Russian interference and disinformation campaign directly, so I would argue that it is in order.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Sorry, but where is that? Is it just because in the preamble it says what will happen once the meetings on Russia are concluded?

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Are you trying to challenge the chair?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Is that your ruling?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

It would appear that the motion looks to have eight meetings for Russia, so the opening is directly related to Russia. In my opinion, it is.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Well, then, I would challenge the chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Understood. We'll have a vote.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

To clarify, if we vote yes, we're...it's confusing.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

You're sustaining her ruling if you vote yes.