Evidence of meeting #129 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conservative.
A video is available from Parliament.
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
I would agree, except this time they didn't seem to do a very good job. You know—
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
As I mentioned previously, student activist.... If you take a look at my writings, at one point in the 1980s I was writing for a Canadian Armed Forces journal or a Canadian Armed Forces publication, so—
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
They're kind of hotbeds for communists, those armed forces journals...?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
No.
My work in the 1980s would not be described as an op-ed for communists. It would probably be described as pro-military, pro-NATO, anti-Russian and anti-Soviet.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Another part of the document says that the subject, “Stuart”, expressed a “loyal attitude” towards Soviet Union policy.
Have you had a loyal attitude towards Soviet Union policy?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, no, I have not had any pro-Soviet attitudes.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Looking at Russia as it is today versus what Russia was in the time of the Soviet Union, do you think that it's even ideologically consistent for somebody who was loyal to the Soviet Union to necessarily be loyal to what the current iteration of the Russian state looks like?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, that's a good question.
Obviously, the Soviet Union from the 1980s arguably could be described as far different from what's going on in Russia right now. I don't have the knowledge, but they're totally two different entities.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Given that you've had access to these documents, have you had an opportunity to send them off for verification or to be debunked by a third party?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, no. I mean, the committee was given photocopies, I believe, so it's hard to send photocopies off and, quite frankly, I view the documents as ridiculous.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Yes, I just find it.... I don't think Mr. Alexander came up with these documents on his own, so obviously somebody put together these documents.
Do you have any idea who might have put together these documents and what their motivations might have been?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, I can't get into details; however, I am in the midst of a civil lawsuit for $7 million that.... You know what? I think our lawyer would prefer that I don't go further into that.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Okay.
How do you think we can improve resilience against foreign influence in a way that doesn't compromise press freedom?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
That's a good point.
I think you have to go through a prism of.... You have to carefully look at what's being presented. Just because I write an article about sexual assault in the Canadian Forces and that—
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho
I'm so sorry to cut you off. The time is up, but perhaps the Liberal member, Mr. Gaheer, may allow you to.... I'll leave that to him. He has five minutes.
Mr. Gaheer, go ahead.
November 7th, 2024 / 4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Pugliese, for appearing before committee.
I echo the comments by my colleagues that we were shocked by the testimony of Mr. Alexander that took place on the 24th, and I'm sure you were equally shocked. He made these allegations before a committee where parliamentary privilege obviously applies. Are you aware of Mr. Alexander making these allegations anywhere else?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, no. He has not repeated these allegations outside your committee.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
If he were to make these allegations outside the security of privilege, would you sue?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, at this point, I'm just trying to make sure that my family is safe, and then I just want to get back to journalism, which hopefully I can do next week, and I can't really go into that. Thank you.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
Okay.
Earlier this week, our committee heard testimony from Lauren Chen, the founder of Tenet Media, the organization currently at the heart of the U.S. indictment on Russian interference and disinformation.
When accusations like that are thrown around against journalists and when obviously we live in an environment—thanks in part to our neighbour to the south—where legacy media, mainstream media, is constantly criticized and mistrusted, what do you think that's doing in terms of eroding the trust in actual journalists when those kinds of claims are made against legacy media?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, yes, we're in a new world when it comes to social media and anyone can say anything.
For instance, that there was an individual who obviously had advance warning about what was going to go down in your committee and who was tweeting one hour before you even started that this explosive testimony about a prominent Canadian journalist would happen. The same individual, the minute your committee started, popped these documents up on social media. We're in a different world here.
In the 1990s, I was accused of being a CIA agent by peace groups. When I was covering the Afghan war, some parliamentarians said I was a Taliban sympathizer. Fast forward to 2024, and now I'm a Russian spy. I'm living this exciting life. The difference this time is that these allegations against journalists, because of social media, just rocket everywhere. That's the difference. In the 1990s when I'm a CIA agent, that's just coming from a bunch of disarmament groups, but now it's a whole different world.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
In your role as a journalist, have you ever spoken with representatives of the Russian embassy in Canada regarding a potential story?
Journalist, Ottawa Citizen, As an Individual
Madam Chair, in my role as a journalist, probably about eight years ago I received.... I've done three stories where the Russian embassy is quoted: two emailed statements, which were put in the story, and then the main story, which was a telephone conversation with the Russian embassy spokesman who was booted out of Canada by the Liberal government. That was a voice interview.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
That's great. Thank you.
We know now that Rachel Curran, Meta's lobbyist and former director of policy for Stephen Harper, when testifying before our committee, said that Meta had to remove news from Facebook and Instagram in Canada because, under the Online News Act, they would be forced “to pay approximately $80 million a year for content that had no particular commercial value to us”.
For those keeping track at home, last year Meta made $134 billion in revenue, and $80 million is 0.05% of Meta's annual revenue. Do you think that 0.05% of revenue, which is a rounding error, is too much to ask global tech giants to pay for Canadian news?