Public Safety Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

What would you say if cities in Quebec decided to fund a Brampton citizen's challenge of your municipal bylaws?

[Patrick Brown]

They could. We're in the same country, and if there's a precedent that we set in Brampton that you're concerned about—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

All right. Since we're in the same country, then, you are telling me that you would support Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec City, Trois-Rivières, Toronto or Winnipeg funding a group of Brampton residents so they could mount a court challenge of your bylaws.

[Patrick Brown]

I do hope that Bill 21 is overturned at the Supreme Court because I don't believe—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Sorry, Mr. Brown, I don't mean to be rude, but I've got only a few seconds left.

Would you agree with that, yes or no?

[Patrick Brown]

If you mean that Canadian laws affect us, then yes, the precedents set in Canada affect us, absolutely.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That means you are inviting other mayors to fund challenges of bylaws in your city they think are bad. Is that correct?

[Patrick Brown]

I just think everyone in Canada should support religious freedom and support our charter. There are parts of our charter that you don't support that—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I'm not talking about supporting the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but I think my time is up, anyways.

I have to tell you, your idea of foreign interference worries me a little.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

That's great. Thank you.

Mr. MacGregor, you have two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mayor Brown, as someone who has had close relations with the South Asian community for quite a number of years now, you would be intimately familiar with the fact that none of this foreign interference is new for that community, specifically from the Government of India. It has been going on for decades. Would you agree?

[Patrick Brown]

I would agree.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

You also have a unique experience, I think, which is pretty helpful to this committee. Not only have you had a long relationship with the South Asian community, but also, in your elected life specifically as a member of Parliament, as you mentioned, you've had involvement with the Canada-India group and have had relations with members of the Indian government.

With the knowledge you have, why do you think we've seen this recent escalation in the violent criminal acts happening on Canadian soil? Do you have any inkling as to what has happened on the ground in India that is lending itself to increased violence here on Canadian soil? Is there more extortion, more threats, more blackmail, etc.?

[Patrick Brown]

I wish we had an answer to that. It's alarming and has obviously damaged the relationship between Canada and India.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I know you're having important conversations with members of your community in Brampton about how we find ourselves out of this peacefully and how we repair relationships and make sure we build a solid foundation of trust, mutual respect and so on.

What do members of your community say to you about what the path forward is for the Government of Canada in its relations with India?

[Patrick Brown]

I think there is a diversity of advice. The feedback I get is probably similar to the feedback you're getting in Ottawa. I would just say that if there are criminal actions taken on Canadian soil, they need to be taken seriously, and there need to be accountability and justice for those actions.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I'll end by thanking you for your appearance at the committee today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

That's great. Thank you.

Mr. Lloyd, you have five minutes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Mayor Brown, picking up from a previous discussion, you said that you believe one of the ways we can counter foreign interference is by exposing it. You said that in the wake of this alleged extrajudicial killing, exposing it was an important way of deterring foreign interference. I think we all want to see that foreign interference doesn't happen in the first place in our country.

Do you have any recommendations for ways that Canada can project strength and build our respect in the world to the point that countries will be deterred from trying to interfere in our democracy and interfere through criminal acts in our country?

[Patrick Brown]

This is your domain in the Government of Canada, but I believe and would suggest that if there are criminal activities taking place at the behest of foreign entities, they need to be made an example of and prosecuted to the full extent of our laws. We can't allow Canadians to be victims of foreign interference, and in the case of what happened in Surrey, the fact that it happened on Canadian soil is unbelievable.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Does it shock you that the suspects in the Nijjar killing were out on bail for previous possession of weapons?

[Patrick Brown]

I've been a public and long-time critic of the bail system in Canada. I believe there are far too many loopholes and that it's a broken system. I'm not saying that today to be partisan; I've been saying that for a very long time. We started a campaign, “bail reform now”, in Brampton based on the tragedy of the Henderson-Bellman incident, where someone lost her life after someone was released on bail on a fifth occasion.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I agree. It's absolutely a disgrace what we're seeing, with repeat violent offenders being given bail routinely to go out and recommit crimes.

Would you agree—and I think you did in your statement—that tied into this study on foreign interference is the need for a robust criminal justice system that not only captures violent repeat offenders and prevents them from committing crimes, but also keeps them behind bars, where they belong, while they await trial if they are deemed a serious threat to the community? These individuals, I believe, were a serious threat to the community. Would that be a form of deterrence for foreign governments seeking to use international gangs to commit extortion activities and commit murder in our country? If we had a stronger criminal justice system in this country, that would be a form of deterrence. Would you agree?

[Patrick Brown]

I would agree with that.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Specifically in terms of how we can strengthen our democracy, you made some very good recommendations. As Conservatives, we're here because we want to actually find solutions to foreign interference. I hear the Liberals, when asking questions, trying to score some points. I don't know exactly what they're trying to get at.

Mr. Brown, you said in your statement that you think you've been brought here for political reasons. I don't suspect you want to elaborate on what those reasons are, but I'll give you an opportunity.