Public Safety Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[C/Supt Mathieu Bertrand]

Thank you for your question.

At CIROC specifically, fentanyl has been a priority for the last three years. The fentanyl strategy was implemented last year. However, as the commissioner was saying, there are multiple areas where we work on fentanyl.

To your question about resources, and to the commissioner's point on the superlab in B.C., the cleanup cost of the chemicals alone at this point right now is already at half a million dollars.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

[C/Supt Mathieu Bertrand]

That money cannot go to other operations unless there are additional resources put in.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, as I don't mean to cut you off. We're just limited for time.

That suggests that there's been a surge of activity just since President-elect Trump has come forward. That specific fentanyl group has been working for at least the last three years and has been ramping up and, obviously, that adjustment has to be made.

I also understand that in 2023, Canada listed fentanyl precursor chemicals under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. Do you happen to know what the maximum sentence is that a person can face if they are found guilty of trafficking precursors?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I do not have that information.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Okay.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I would say it depends on the judge who is presiding.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

That's fair enough. Maybe we can follow up on that with Justice. It's my understanding that it's actually a life sentence, but we can certainly follow up with Justice on that.

On some of the precursors, Commissioner, you mentioned the reverse onus. Are there other countries that have that?

It would help if we had pretty strong sentences for the trafficking of precursors. If there were additional legislative proposals that had a reverse onus, there would be pretty strict penalties together.

Do you have examples of what that reverse onus approach looks like, and if there are other countries currently doing something similar?

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Give just a brief response. We're over our time.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

You would have to look at the process when the precursors are imported into Canada and then look at how they are collected by the person who imported them, and see what we could do to tighten up and reverse the onus on the person. Why do you need these drums? Do background checks. Some of the background checks are already being done on the companies, but I think there's something to be done whereby we can tighten that up.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Michaud, you have two and a half minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

There's a lot of talk about the government's plan to avoid being subject to the 25% tariffs imposed by the U.S. government. However, I think that this plan must go both ways.

I'll remind you of a few statements made by President-elect Donald Trump during the last U.S. election campaign.

He announced his willingness to declare nothing less than a national state of emergency, and to use the U.S. military to enforce measures concerning the deportation of people who are illegally in the United States. At a press conference, he even announced that he was going to launch the largest deportation in American history.

Let's go back to 2017, when he was last in office. More than 60,000 people had claimed asylum in Canada at the Canada-U.S. land border. Today, more than 11 million people in the United States are without status. In addition, hundreds of thousands of people have limited status, which will expire in the coming months.

Let's recall his plan during his last term. He spoke of building a wall on the southern border between the U.S. and Mexico; putting an end to the "catch and release" policy regarding undocumented people; creating a special force to deport illegal criminals; blocking immigration from certain countries after thorough investigations; forcing other countries to repatriate people whom U.S. authorities wish to deport; and setting up a tracking system through biometric visas. Other things are mentioned, and I won't list them all.

So it seems that we could be facing a large influx of migrants at the Canadian border.

I'm not asking you for the details of the plan that will supposedly be released next week, but I imagine that the Minister of Public Safety has consulted with your various organizations to find out what you recommend.

It seems to me that we question you often, and I don't want you to get the impression that we think nothing is being done at this time. We know there are many things being done that we just don't know about.

In that context, I imagine that additional measures could be taken and that's what the $1 billion investment will allow.

Ms. O'Gorman, could you tell us about the recommendations you made to the minister, without telling us what will be retained? Maybe you don't know that yourself.

[Erin O'Gorman]

Absolutely, the minister has consulted us on...

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Please give a very brief response. We're a bit over time.

[Erin O'Gorman]

I don't know if I'll give the precise advice, but, certainly, additional resources in all of our business lines would yield increased outcomes.

The minister did consult us on those issues.

It's quite clear that more people would be needed to monitor exports and imports.

I've already mentioned the monitoring of postal packages, detection equipment, new technologies, detector dog teams, which would allow us to do more.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you very much, Ms. Michaud and Ms. O'Gorman.

Next, we have Mr. MacGregor, for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I also want to follow up on that particular subject point. The incoming president, Mr. Trump, has referred to using the U.S. military to enforce measures regarding the deportation of people who have entered the U.S. irregularly. In practical terms, what are the consequences for Canada if he follows through? Do you have some projections on what that would actually mean? Would our immigration detention centres be up to the task?

I just want to know: if he is actually going to follow through, what does that means for Canada? How many people do you perceive might actually come our way? The United States says, “They are not our problem anymore, and they need to leave.”

[Erin O'Gorman]

The safe third country agreement is in place. As my colleague said, we implement it every day. People come to the ports of entry to seek asylum every day. We process them. If they qualify for one of the few exemptions, they come into the country into the asylum system. We are prepared for a surge, but recognize the safe third—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Do you have a figure attached to that surge? Roughly speaking, do you know how many that would result in coming to Canada?

[Erin O'Gorman]

No, because it would mean knowing, one, the number of people who would want to come to Canada; and two, those who would qualify for an exception. That's just an unknowable. The exceptions include a family member, a minor, or U.S. citizen.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Are the three detention centres we have up to the task? Are you going to have to rely on provincial prisons for people you believe are a flight risk? We just want to know.

[Erin O'Gorman]

I'm sorry. I forgot your question.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

These are human beings. We want to make sure they are going to be treated with dignity and respect, with all of the resources afforded to them.

[Erin O'Gorman]

Yes.

Every day, a very small number of people who seek asylum in Canada are subject to detention. There are 13,000 who are subject to alternatives to detention, which is to say bracelets and reporting. The small number who are detained based on a decision by the Immigration and Refugee Board are held in our IHCs.

We regret having lost access to provincial detention facilities so quickly before we could build the infrastructure, but we are retrofitting our infrastructure to take on that task. I don't expect the level of detention would necessarily change from what it is today.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Ms. O'Gorman.

Mr. Lloyd, go ahead for five minutes.