Public Safety Committee on May 19th, 2022

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Yes, Mr. Chair, at least from the Conservative side.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Okay. We have unanimous consent to move the motion. Does that mean we can now move to a vote? Is there any debate on the motion?

Ms. Dancho, go ahead.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to make the Conservative position very clear on this before we proceed to a vote, so I guess this is debate. I'd like to make it clear that Conservatives strongly support the NATO defence alliance. As a founding member of NATO, the peace and security that Canada has enjoyed for the past 73 years has been backed by the collective security promise that any attack on one NATO country is an attack on all.

Sweden and Finland have been reliable security partners to NATO and in the Arctic. At a time when Putin is engaged in an illegal war and occupation in Ukraine, it is understandable that Russia's neighbours are seeking further security guarantees.

Conservatives believe the alliance would be stronger with Sweden and Finland as members, and Conservatives support their applications if they choose to apply to join NATO, which I believe they are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you.

Is there other debate on the motion?

Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

It seems that this debate might be more appropriate for foreign affairs or national defence, so I just want to ask Ms. Damoff this. I understand this is an important issue, and we're supportive of it, but why bring it up to this committee? What is the reasoning behind that?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I think Ms. Dancho expressed quite eloquently why this is an important issue. Quite honestly, I don't need to give the honourable member a reason for bringing this forward. It's important to our government. We're studying issues in this committee right now to do with Russian interference in Canada, so I know it is an issue with shared concerns across all parties in this committee. I don't think I need to give reasons to the honourable member for bringing this forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Since there is no further debate on the motion on the floor, does that now mean we proceed to a vote?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Can we have a recorded vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

There's a request for a recorded vote. Please proceed.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

Thank you, members of the committee. The motion passes.

Let's quickly move back to questions, because we are running out of time and, as you know, we have some votes on the estimates that have to occur before we break. Question period is looming.

Ms. Damoff, you have finished your block of questions, so I will move to Ms. Michaud.

Ms. Michaud, I think we can give you six minutes. Let's see how far we get. The floor is yours.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for their patience.

My first question is for the Canada Border Services Agency officials.

Just yesterday, Mr. Weber, the president of the Customs and Immigration Union, publicly called on the agency and the Minister of Public Safety to increase the number of border services officers on duty at the border, airports, in particular. In the news this week, we've seen very long lineups and delays in the processing of travellers. In fact, the Conservatives have chosen to raise that issue, and rightfully so, for their opposition day today.

According to the union, not enough officers are assigned to passenger operations, especially at Toronto’s Pearson International Airport, where just 300 officers are currently on duty—half the number of officers needed. The union claims that inefficient technologies are also to blame for the delays and lineups.

I want to give the agency an opportunity to respond to the request made by the union yesterday. What does the agency plan to do? Do you think the funding announced is enough to find the necessary solutions?

[John Ossowski, President, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On an annual basis, the CBSA invests significant effort in planning and preparing for peak periods. It usually begins around this weekend, the May Victoria Day holiday weekend. However, as a result of some of the changes in the public health measures, travel has bounced back. We're in that transition phase. We work with the airports very closely, particularly Pearson, given that it is the largest airport, with the volumes it has.

I would say that certainly the airport authority has informed us that they're moving forward to bring more kiosks online to help expedite passages. In fact, it has proven to us that this is the way to deal with these volumes as they go through.

I would also say that it's important for the committee to understand that, because of the public health measures, we're not opening up the same border we had in 2019. People need to be patient and to make sure they're prepared. There are obviously flight convergence times that we don't have any control over, but we work with the airports and other partners to make sure we're efficient as best we can be. I'm confident that as we get into the summer we'll rebalance and we'll have reallocated to make things as smooth as possible.

Thank you.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ossowski.

When the committee was studying gun and gang violence, we heard from witnesses who pointed to gaps at the border. They recommended increased monitoring of international rail traffic and marine shipping of cargo, which apparently the agency does not seem to check enough. As I understand it, checks are done randomly on the basis of available information on the presence of illegal weapons in this shipment or that car.

Do you think the funding in the main estimates will allow the agency to increase its capacity to conduct checks? Does the agency plan to increase its control and oversight activities? Are you of the view that the funding announced is sufficient for the agency to do its work properly?

[John Ossowski]

Obviously, stopping illegal firearms and weapons from entering Canada is an enforcement priority for us. In 2021 we seized over 1,100 firearms, which was double what we did in 2020. We're taking an approach now, with our colleagues to the south and obviously domestic law enforcement partners, to establish stronger intelligence partnerships and relationships so that we can detect and intercept illegal firearm movements before they hit the border.

This work is being undergone right now. We're establishing an MOU with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to better share information and establish that intelligence posture to help us intercept those weapons and intercept the criminal groups with our law enforcement colleagues.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

My next question is for the RCMP officials.

We were just discussing the staff shortage at the Canada Border Services Agency. I was told by the National Police Federation that the labour shortage is also affecting all police departments; unfortunately, you're in the same boat as every other sector, so it's not a criticism.

With the funding in the spending estimates, does the RCMP expect to be able to improve recruitment? Does it have strategies to recruit more officers or plans to offer more competitive pay? What does the RCMP envision on that front?

[Brian Brennan, Deputy Commissioner, Contract and Indigenous Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Good afternoon, and thank you for the question.

My name is Brian Brennan. I'm the deputy commissioner in charge of contract and indigenous policing. The commissioner was unavailable today.

In regard to your question, I think it would be appropriate that I turn this question over to my colleague, Nadine Huggins, who is our chief human resources officer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

You have 10 seconds to answer.

[Nadine Huggins, Chief Human Resources Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you very much.

We are in fact taking very deliberate actions to increase our recruitment and revitalize and modernize our recruitment approaches. We are also following up on attracting experienced police officers—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacGregor, I now will turn to you for six minutes.

I believe, colleagues, that's as far as we're going to be able to go.

Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I think my question might be best suited to Deputy Minister Stewart. It's a budgetary question and has to deal specifically with the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission.

The chair has previously testified before our committee that she is often having to make the decision between dealing with complaints from the public and conducting systemic reviews. I think that over the last five years they saw a 21.73% increase in complaints and a 32.19% increase in review requests, so obviously the demand on the agency is increasing. The chair has testified that difficult decisions often have to be made.

Deputy Minister, given that information, why has the budgetary increase been so small from the main estimates for 2021-22 to these main estimates?

[Rob Stewart]

Thank you for the question. I will make two points.

First, we recognize that there are pressures on the agency to do its work, and we would indeed welcome further allocations of resources. That's known in the system. As of the filing of the main estimates 2022-23, we did not have any decision.

In addition, as the minister noted today, with the tabling of the bill to establish the PCRC, the personal complaints and review commission, there is going to be an incremental amount of resources that are awarded to the newly renamed commission.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I have been quickly reviewing Bill C-20, the bill in question, which is establishing a new public complaints and review commission.

Deputy Minister, looking into the future, if that bill makes it to the Governor General's desk and is signed into law, do you have an idea as to what its budget allocation will be—a broad estimate—compared to what is currently allocated to the civilian review and complaints commission?

[Rob Stewart]

It will be a very significant increase in its budget.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Can you be more specific?

[Rob Stewart]

Unfortunately, not at this time.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

But you stand by the words “very significant”.