Public Safety Committee on May 19th, 2022

[Rob Stewart]

Indeed. I think the British Columbia example has been very instructive. I'll just try to be clear. DFAA pays for expenses incurred with a small amount of money set aside for building back better, as they say. For the most part, it restores existing infrastructure and compensates people who have suffered losses.

There is a disaster mitigation and adaptation program that the government runs through Infrastructure Canada that pays for building newer and more resilient infrastructure. There are monies under that which go to various provinces and territories. I'm not able to speak to the details of that at this point.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

We would love to get those details if you could, perhaps, provide them to the committee.

Still talking about the flooding in the Fraser Valley, a good amount of the flooding came from south of the border, the Nooksack River, which runs completely within Washington state. It also breached its levies and Canada is downhill from there so the water came into the Abbotsford area.

Canada cannot solve this problem on its own. It must work internationally with our American counterparts. I wonder, sir, if you can update this committee on the status of the negotiations with the United States.

[Rob Stewart]

I'm sorry. I'm not able to give you any update on negotiations. I can tell you that there are discussions under way, and this is recognized by the United States at a senior level as an issue that should be addressed to build resilience for the future.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Engineering reports have been prepared by engineers working on both sides of the border, and there are several different options available to solve the problem. One is, of course, to build up the levees on the Nooksack River, which is not good downstream for American cities—I'm thinking of Bellingham, in particular. The other is to just let the water flow naturally, and that is over Canadian property, which, of course, would be devastating for Canadian farmers.

Do you have any comments on that? How are we going to resolve that problem?

[Rob Stewart]

I do not have a comment on that, sir.

I recognize that there are trade-offs here, and this is why we will have to work carefully and closely with our American friends, but I don't know how that will work out.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

That's fair enough. Thank you.

I've been speaking with people in the insurance industry, particularly those with insurance companies that insure farms, and they're very concerned about the lack of climate change data around flooding. Then I see that in the minister's mandate letter there is some reference to working with private industry, including insurance companies, and I'm assuming that is to help the insurance companies with underwriting risk assessments. Do you have any comments about that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Answer in 10 seconds, please.

[Rob Stewart]

There are a number of initiatives under way. We're doing enhanced flood mapping with other departments. We also have a task force looking at insurance arrangements so that we can provide more coverage to people in at risk areas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you.

Ms. Damoff, I turn to you for your six-minute slot, whenever you're ready.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair.

My first question is for the Public Safety officials. I've done a lot of work with Circles of Support and Accountability Canada, also known as CoSA. That organization reduces sexual victimization by providing programming to sex offenders that reduces their likelihood of reoffending, increases their likelihood of successful reintegration and helps to keep communities safe. Most of this work is done by volunteers, and in fact, they have an 88% success rate in the work that they do. I wondered if you could update the committee on the work that Public Safety is engaged in with CoSA to ensure that they're able to continue their important work across the country.

[Rob Stewart]

Thank you for the question.

What I can tell you, based on what I know, is that we, in the past, have funded the work of CoSA through one of our standing grants and contribution programs, and we are in conversation with them about other funding coming in the future. At this point in time, we have not reached an agreement on the terms of that arrangement.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

You're doing a lot more than that, but I shouldn't answer my own question. I actually went to their fundraising dinner, and they were quite pleased with the work that Public Safety is doing to protect them with provincial and territorial authorities, to be able to expand their ability to raise funds, so thank you for that.

Commissioner Kelly, it's always nice to see you here at committee, and you knew you couldn't get away from here without hearing a question from me.

I had the chance to see the mother-child program at Grand Valley Institution, and I was incredibly impressed with the work being done there. As you know, Grand Valley is doing better work than other institutions in providing this program. I met two indigenous moms, one of whom was from Flin Flon, and because of the distance, it was not working as well as it probably should be in order to keep contact with her kids.

StatsCan said in 2011 that 48% of children residing in foster care placements are indigenous, and the majority of those kids have incarcerated mothers. We also know that the mother-child program leads to a reduction in recidivism. I'm wondering, Commissioner Kelly, if you can talk about what you might be doing to enhance the mother-child program, not just for the babies in prisons but, more importantly, to have the mums connect with their children.

[Anne Kelly, Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada]

Thank you for that question.

Yes, I'm pleased to talk about the mother-child program. As you know, it was implemented in 2001, and it's really to foster positive relationships between mothers and their children. It's available in all of of our facilities, including the healing lodge. In the program, there is both a residential component and a non-residential component. The residential component is offered on a full-time basis as well as a part-time basis. Children up to school age can actually remain with their mothers. Then, they can come in on a part-time basis. There are obviously eligibility criteria that they need to meet, and we work with family and social services.

We have had participants in the mother-child program over the years. When I look at, let's say, the last three years, in 2018-19, we had 17 participating; in 2019-20, we had 15; in 2020-21, we had nine; and currently, we actually have four. There are two part time and one full time in Joliette, and one full time at EIFW. It's—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you. I'm going to have to cut you off there because my time is short and I have to move onto something else.

I know you're aware of the program, Commissioner. My comment would be that we're not doing as well as we should be, and we can take away that we need to be doing better with that program. The numbers are not going up in the way they should be, but I appreciate what you're doing to ensure that more moms are part of the program. I really do. We just need to be doing better.

Committee, I want to bring forward a motion. As you know, the minister spoke in his opening remarks about Ukraine and Russia. I'm going to tie this motion to it. I did give a very quick heads-up to the other parties.

The motion would be that the committee report to the House that the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security:

a) Express its strong support for Finland and Sweden's NATO membership, as Finland and Sweden are among NATO's closest partners; and

b) Call on all NATO members to approve their application for NATO membership as quickly as possible.

I'd like to put that on the floor and hopefully quickly go to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

The motion is on the floor. Do we have unanimous consent to approve this motion?

I do not see any hands up.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Chair, I just have a question for clarification on procedure.

Can you just confirm that in order to move a motion without the 48 hours' notice, you need unanimous consent to officially move that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

That is my understanding.

Clerk, is that the case?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Wassim Bouanani]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

If it relates to the business that the committee is working on, you can bring forward a motion.

I would argue that since the minister brought up the issue of what's going on in Ukraine during his opening remarks, it actually does apply. I'm hoping that we won't need a long discussion and that there is all-party consent for this. I think it's within the rules that this is in order without unanimous consent, given his opening comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

The motion is on the floor and put to the committee. It has been read by Ms. Damoff.

Are any members of the committee opposed to the motion?

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

I'm sorry. I had to step out for a second, but I did catch most of that.

Is it the practice of this committee that notice of motions have to be given 48 hours before they're moved? Is it the case that you're not seeking unanimous consent because the minister had spoken about this and you think it's topical? Is that what's going on?

I just wonder if we are breaching the standing orders in this committee by seeking to put something that hasn't been given proper notice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Clerk, can you provide a comment on that, please?

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, according to the procedures and the routine motions adopted by the committee on the first meeting, 48 hours' notice must be given to the committee before moving a motion. A notice of motion can be given once the member has the floor and is recognized by the chair, unless it is under committee business or it is related to the study or the question at hand.

It is the call of the members to determine whether it's related to the study we have today before the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

The argument has been advanced that the motion relates to the testimony of the minister. The motion is currently on the floor.

Let me again ask members of the committee if there is support for this motion. If there isn't, we'll have the nays expressed now.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I have just another point to make.

I appreciate the member bringing this forward, but I don't understand why respect was not given to provide 48 hours' notice for this important issue. Perhaps she can explain why that was not done.