Public Safety Committee on May 19th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you, Minister.

I would now invite Ms. Michaud to take the floor for a six-minute block of questions.

Whenever you're ready, Ms. Michaud, the floor is yours.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here.

I also thank your colleagues who are with you today for their availability.

Minister, I would like to talk to you about guns. We often talk to each other about it during question periods. We also talked about it during your last visit to the committee. My Bloc Québécois colleagues and I have assured you, on several occasions, of our support for better gun control. However, we still expressed our disagreement on how to do it.

We believe that banning military-style assault weapons piecemeal or passing regulations banning thousands of weapons at a time has the effect of making other weapons, available on the market once the regulations are in place, legal. My party and organizations like PolySeSouvient have proposed amending the definition of assault weapon in the Criminal Code. This would prevent some weapons from falling through the regulatory cracks. Other countries have done this, including the United States in 1994.

I'd like you to talk to us about that, because I know that you recently announced investments for police forces, provinces, and municipalities. That is very good and we agree on these investments. That said, I think there is a way to amend the Criminal Code so that more weapons are not allowed to remain unrestricted for the time being.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Ms. Michaud, thank you for your question and your suggestions. We will always be open to new ways to strengthen our laws. Last week, for example, I announced that new obligations would be imposed on firearms dealers. These rules could help prevent gun violence.

As for the question about AR‑15 assault weapons, I hope everyone feels the same way. This particular type of firearm has no place in our communities. That's exactly why we banned it nationwide.

I would like to point out that the order in council applies in perpetuity. New military firearms have been added to the list of prohibited weapons. I therefore hope that the practical application of this government decision will reassure the Bloc Québécois somewhat that this work will continue.

For the rest, I am always ready to look for concrete solutions. I have a lot of commitments with my Quebec counterparts. Just yesterday, I had a discussion with Minister Guilbault. Almost a month ago, I was at the Montreal Forum on Combating Gun Violence, at the invitation of the mayor.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

This is more or less reassuring, in that things are evolving extremely fast at the moment. The WK180‑C rifle model, which works almost exactly like the AR‑15, is on the market and is still classified as non-restricted. I understand that the regulations are updated often, but there are still guns that manage to sneak onto the market that people can go and get without any problems.

By making this amendment to the Criminal Code, I think the problem would be solved. In the last Parliament, your colleague introduced Bill C‑21 to regulate assault weapons. A buyback program was proposed, which you later made mandatory.

Can we expect this bill to be introduced before the end of the parliamentary session? Do you have a date to suggest to us?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I hope it will be done as soon as possible. I know that this is a very important, if not essential, issue in this matter. There are some priorities in my mandate that I hope will be outlined in a bill that will be tabled shortly. It will even address the specific questions you have asked me.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I know that the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, CSIS, is working on the terrorist entity list, and that's fine. Perhaps the service will need more resources, for example.

In the same vein, yesterday, during question period, it was said that the creation of a registry of criminal organizations could help curb violence in the streets, particularly in Montreal, where there is a gang war. They are the ones shooting almost everywhere in broad daylight and killing innocent people. It was suggested that this proposed registry be linked to the list of terrorist entities, because membership in a terrorist group is a criminal act, while being a member of the Hells Angels or a street gang is not.

Do you believe that the creation of such a registry could help curb violence?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I know we only have 30 seconds left, but there are provisions in the Criminal Code that can be used by police forces to prosecute criminal organizations.

As for the second part of your question, the list of terrorist entities is very important in the current context, given all the challenges related to racism and terrorism.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Mr. MacGregor, I now call upon you to take six minutes to pose your questions to the minister.

Go ahead, whenever you're ready, sir.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for joining us at committee today.

We had the systemic racism in policing report presented to the House 11 months ago, and it was retabled in this Parliament. You were handed your mandate letter in December, which includes some instructions from the Prime Minister with regard to the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission and establishing a legislative framework for indigenous policing.

Here we are in May, Minister, and I think a number of people, particularly indigenous, racialized and Black Canadians, are starting to get a bit concerned with the pace at which you are moving on this file. You have expressed in the House a number of times how important this is to you, but I would like to know when you are actually going to get moving on some of the systemic reforms we need to see in the legislation regarding how the RCMP conducts itself. When I look at the estimates, the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission does not have a budgetary increase that is commensurate with what the agency is expected to be doing.

When is your government actually going to move forward and put forward some real, concrete measures on this?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The first thing I want to say, Mr. MacGregor, is that I share the urgency of those communities, and I want to communicate through you to them and say directly that I agree. We need to accelerate the progress as it relates to reforms of our institutions, including law enforcement.

Earlier today, we tabled legislation in the House of Commons that would enhance a civilian review of both the RCMP and the CBSA as a way of fostering more public confidence and trust.

I'll say a few brief words about reconciliation because you and I have had a number of exchanges on this. I believe we have to increase the speed with which we continue to recruit more indigenous people into law enforcement. I know this is something the commissioner of the RCMP is very dedicated to doing. Equally, in both the oversight and the review functions we are creating—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Yes, but specifically on the statutory timelines, when are those going to be acted upon?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Precisely. Thank you for highlighting that.

The law that we have tabled this morning will speak specifically to codifying timelines in the context of complaints. I agree that we need to accelerate all of this work.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

In addition to my next question, can you make a comment on the legislative framework for indigenous policing? I want to know where we're at with that.

The other broader question is regarding the role of the RCMP in the future. As you know, in my home province of British Columbia, there was an all-party legislative committee of the B.C. legislature that has now recommended that British Columbia start a provincial police force.

In response to Mr. Noormohamed's question, you were referencing the financial crimes agency, which I think is an area that we need to concentrate on. There are muddied waters ahead about what you see the RCMP doing. There are questions about its contract policing. What kind of a role is it going to play with this financial crimes agency? If you can expand on that, I think we need to have some answers.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Certainly.

I would say at the outset that the creation of this new financial agency is still very much in its infant stages. I think we need to contemplate a strong degree of collaboration between this new agency and FINTRAC, for example, which is within the RCMP. I would say that, beyond that, I would be quite keen to talk to you about how you envision the relationship between that agency and other pre-existing law enforcement branches should operate.

Just on contractual policing, I want to take a moment to really impress upon you and the other members of this committee just how important this work is to the RCMP. I think the commissioner would be quite happy to expand on it.

As you know, in your province, British Columbia, the relationship between the British Columbia government and the RCMP is essential in providing public safety, not only in big suburban centres but equally right across rural Canada, including in indigenous communities.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I understand that. My riding is policed entirely by the RCMP. I think the rank and file do amazing work. It doesn't stop the fact that an all-party committee came out with this recommendation. You have a province coming forward asking for systemic reform there.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Totally. I was just going to add very quickly to that so that you can move on to your next question.

I met with first nations police chiefs this morning, and we talked about both stabilizing as well as expanding our work in first nations and Inuit policing, including the codevelopment of legislation that will ensure that we treat first nations and indigenous policing as an essential service. Indigenous peoples are entitled to the same public safety as non-indigenous Canadians are.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Very quickly, in 30 seconds, in our IMVE study, it has been made quite clear to us from a number of witnesses that our national security legislation that governs CSIS and those agencies is in need of a bit of an update, to put it politely.

Do you have any comments on that, sir?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Just that I agree, and as we contemplate those new tools to address the various threats to the landscape, including ideologically motivated extremism, which can lead to violence we need to do that work in collaboration with you and all parliamentarians so that we protect Canadians' charter rights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, I'm just looking at the time and the time available. If you agree to stay with us for about five or six minutes beyond the top of the hour, we'll be able to have a full second round of questioning.

Is that okay with you?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Of course.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you.

Then let's start right away. I will invite Ms. Dancho to begin the second round with a five-minute block.

Ms. Dancho, the floor is yours.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you Minister, for being here.

Recently your department provided a cybersecurity briefing for members of the opposition. When I asked them what the Pearl Harbor event is that could happen to Canada concerning cyber-attacks, one of the things they mentioned was an attack on our pipeline infrastructure, particularly in winter. Would you agree that it would be a considerable threat?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

First, I'm very happy that you had the briefing. I agree that we need to be vigilant in protecting our critical infrastructure, including pipelines, yes.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I'm sure you're aware that the Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack in the United States effectively shut down that pipeline for several hours, and 17 states, including Washington, D.C., went into states of emergency. This is a very real threat. I'm glad that your department seems to be taking this seriously.

On the other hand, concerning the Coastal GasLink pipeline, as you know, there were 20 assailants wielding axes who terrorized workers at the B.C. work site. It caused millions of dollars of damage. They even set up booby traps for when police came to the site so that police couldn't get there. It's very terrifying, what went on there.

Three months later, the RCMP has announced that there are no leads and no information as to their identities, methods or how they funded these eco-terrorist activities. When your officials, some heads of CSIS and the RCMP, including the deputy commissioner of the RCMP, were at our committee a few weeks ago talking about ideologically motivated extremism, they could not tell me whether anyone had been arrested.

Do you find that concerning, that officials in your department who were here to talk about extremism were not following this violent case of extremism?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I wouldn't collapse the officials into one general category, Ms. Dancho. There are departmental officials who are here to support all of us and me and the government in the creation of policies and laws. When it comes to investigations, including who may be charged, those are questions that are best put to police.