Public Safety Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, as minister, I'm not going to comment on any ongoing investigation. That would be entirely inappropriate. I have confidence in our police agencies, and particularly in the RCMP, to do their work.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I asked because I can see you take this very seriously, as the Minister of Emergency Preparedness. I have concerns that the assailants have not been caught. That sets a precedent for copycats. “They got away with it; maybe we can, too.” I would ask that you have more discussions with your cabinet colleagues to ensure these individuals are held accountable.

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

That is perfect timing.

I will now turn to Mr. McKinnon for five minutes of questioning.

Mr. McKinnon, go ahead whenever you're ready, sir.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today. It's always a pleasure, and it's good to hear the breadth and scope of what you're working on.

I know you're working a lot on natural disasters—forest fires, earthquakes and stuff—but in the context of our study on the security implications of what's going on in Ukraine with Russia and so forth, we've talked about cyber; we've talked about the economic blowback from sanctions; we've talked about the possible harm to international agreements, and so forth.

I'd like to hear from you on what you see as the greatest threats that Canada faces in regard to this situation.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

There are a number of things that we're monitoring very carefully and out of an abundance of caution. That's the approach I like to bring to it, to provide that abundance of caution and care to ensure the health and safety of all Canadians.

Because of our distance from the conflict in Ukraine, probably the most significant threat that Canada would face from this would be cyber-related, but having said that, we take an all-hazards approach, and we're monitoring the situation very carefully.

I also would comment that there are 1.4 million Ukrainian Canadians who have a very strong interest, and they have family and perhaps business interests, and at the very least they love their mother country. I think we also have a duty to them to be particularly vigilant in order to make sure they are not subject not just to undue influence, but to any kind of interference or threat.

Sometimes we see, for example, that when they advocate for Ukraine, the response on social media can be very challenging for them, particularly for certain vulnerable members of that community, so we remain vigilant in our support of Ukrainian Canadians, as well as protecting Canadian critical infrastructure and interests.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I'll segue from there to individual Canadians.

What can we do? This threat from Russia is somewhat distant in some respects, but it's also very close to home in many other respects. What can ordinary citizens do? What should they be doing to take prudent precautions to prepare themselves for the future in relation to this conflict?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I always remind myself that in any kind of emergency, the first response is always the public. The more information we can provide to the public about potential threats and risks, I think the better Canadians can respond to protect their interests.

For example, I think we can help Canadians to be alert to the possible impact of misinformation and disinformation, so they can perhaps make better-informed decisions and not be inappropriately influenced by information that is intended to cause them to react in a certain way. I think we have a responsibility to do that.

Let's also acknowledge, Mr. McKinnon, that Canadians are feeling the impact of the sanctions on Russia. We're seeing it at the gas pumps, and our farmers are experiencing it in the acquisition of the fertilizer they need. We're seeing real impacts from the sanctions and from the conflict in Ukraine.

Perhaps no one is experiencing the impacts of that more than Ukrainian Canadians here in this country.

We all have to remain alert and vigilant and supportive of those who are being impacted in a particularly difficult way by all of the outcomes of the invasion of Ukraine.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I have one last question.

I was interested to hear your discussion of upgrading the federal emergency response plan. I wonder if you could speak to us more about that. Where does it need to be upgraded, and what kind of time frame are we looking at for that?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I was previously, as you'll know, the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. We've learned lessons from the impact of the pandemic, but also by what we are witnessing in this country with an increase in the frequency and severity of climate-related natural disasters. We've seen it with heat domes in British Columbia and very significant floods last fall, and then again this spring. We've seen a very challenging wildfire season, and of course concerns about pandemics and disease are accelerating. It requires that we keep up with the times.

I believe, in the business of emergency preparation and preparedness, if we maintain the status quo we fall behind, because the situation is actually accelerating and getting more difficult. It requires, through the federal emergency response plan and all the ancillary work that goes on around that, that we continue to build upon our ability to create greater resilience and awareness of the impact of these types of events.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

I turn to Ms. Michaud for two and a half minutes of questioning.

Please go ahead.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I’m going to ask you a question that Mr. Stewart can elaborate on, if necessary.

We know that Russia is using the concept of hybrid warfare to destabilize certain countries. Experts believe that it may have contributed to the trucker convoy phenomenon. We know that there were foreign interference and funding, namely from the United States.

Based on the information you have gathered, was there Russian involvement in the trucker convoy?

If so, how did this take place?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If I may begin, I saw you were trying to direct that to the deputy, and I'll turn it over to him for a second.

I will tell you that I've received no information and no intelligence that indicates that Russia was involved in any activity related to the protests, convoys and blockades.

[Rob Stewart]

That's right.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you very much.

Do you have any other examples of groups in Canada incited by Russia to get involved in politics? We were concerned that such groups were actively interfering in our institutions’ affairs and our democracy.

Do you have any concerns about other groups in terms of disinformation and cyber security?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I can tell you that a number of the entities that we have recently listed as terrorist organizations have origins in Russia. That doesn't necessarily reflect the activities of the state, so I would differentiate between hostile activities of a state actor, such as Russia, and activities that originate in Russia that are primarily criminally based.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I imagine you agree with that.

Recently in the House, we voted in favour of a motion requiring that your government develop a strategy, based on the Australian model, to fight foreign interference.

Can you tell us if, since the adoption of this motion, anything has been done in this regard?

Do you intend to put in place a plan to counter foreign interference soon?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes. I don't want to get too far ahead of that work, but, in response to that, I can tell you that our government is very much engaged on a number of different fronts at looking at how we can better manage and protect Canada and create greater resiliency against foreign interference. Part of that is on the basis of the cyber world. Part of it is concerning information, misinformation and disinformation. Some of that work is also the responsibility of our national security intelligence agencies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll move to Mr. MacGregor for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Minister, on Monday, your colleague, Minister Mendicino, introduced Bill C-21, and while a lot of the attention on that bill has been focused on the national handgun freeze, there are also some significant amendments within it to the Nuclear Safety and Control Act, for people who operate high-security sites. These are sites where you have category I or II nuclear materials, which are basically our nuclear power plants. If this bill goes through, the amendments to that act are going to require those sites to have an on-site nuclear response force that is composed of nuclear security officers, designated as peace officers, who will be proficient in all manner of firearms.

I guess that in your role as Minister of Emergency Preparedness, you have to try to proactively manage risks. Minister, have there been any instances in Canada that have prompted this amendment to the legislation? Did you find that there was a serious gap in the physical security of our sites? Were there any risks manifested that prompted this amendment?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If you don't mind, I'll rely on my previous experience as a police chief in Toronto. We have a nuclear plant nearby, and there was an established.... Initially, the policing and security of that was being provided by the police of jurisdiction, but they formed their own security services.

There has been significant work done on potential risk assessments of those facilities, and I am very much of the belief that it is necessary that we have a robust and properly equipped security response in order to protect those types of facilities because of their criticality and the potential risk involved. They are already able to provide the type of armed response that you describe. We're just building it within the act so that they'll be able to continue in light of the prohibitions that we've put in place.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I'm guessing the danger from a foreign state actor that might trigger article 5 of NATO would be relatively low, so are the risks more on the cyber front than on the physical front?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Frankly, both are risks. It is possible that it could be a hostile state actor. It's also a site that could potentially be targeted by others—terrorists or other types of criminal intent. Therefore, it is necessary for the protection of citizens. There are risks associated with nuclear facilities, and those risks have to be properly mitigated by appropriately equipped security services.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you, Minister.

Now I will turn to Mr. Van Popta for five minutes.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister, for being here, and also thank you to the deputy minister.

I have a question about Canada's infrastructure, or perhaps international infrastructure, and how Canada's vulnerability might play into that.

I was reading in a BBC publication from about a year ago that a Russian ship carrying submarines was tracked sailing around the British Isles. It was likely mapping the locations of underwater cables and optic fibres, which are the world's information superhighway.

Is that a threat to Canada? Are we prepared for something like that?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Frankly, any effort by a hostile state actor to gain access or to in any way interfere with our information systems.... I will tell you that information and communication technology is one of our critical infrastructure sectors, so ensuring the security and integrity of those systems is an issue of national concern. Yes, we would be concerned by such activity, and certainly we would be vigilant against it.