Public Safety Committee on Oct. 25th, 2022

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to start with Ms. Kiejko, please.

First of all, thank you for being here today. Also, thank you for your representation of Canada and for representing our country so proudly. I can only imagine what kind of pride you must have felt walking into an Olympic stadium representing your country.

I'd like to start off by asking you about this. Your father was also an Olympic pistol shooter. You mentioned in an interview once that while growing up, your father talked to you a lot about the sport of pistol shooting and stressed the importance of gun safety and responsible gun ownership.

Perhaps you could tell the committee a little bit about how old you were when you started shooting with your father, some of the lessons he taught you growing up around gun safety and how much of a family issue this was to you.

[Lynda Kiejko]

Those are actually two separate questions.

What age did I start shooting? I was 11.

What age did I start learning about gun safety? I can't tell you, because it's been for as long as I can remember. I was a very young kid. My dad didn't even let us point our fingers at each other and make the “pew pew” sounds. He kind of just folded them up and said to put that away because it's not safe and we don't do that in our house.

My dad took gun safety very seriously, and I also take it very seriously. You don't aim a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. That's ingrained in me at all times. My guns are always pointed in a safe direction, which is downrange. My kids aren't allowed to play with guns or toy guns either.

When it comes to gun safety, I think it's about respect. It's about understanding safety of all aspects and making sure that it's always safe.

Gun safety was always paramount in our house. Quite honestly, while growing up I didn't even know where my dad had his firearms stored, because they were so well secured and put away. I didn't know where they were until I was much older.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I only have four minutes, so I'm very tight on time.

I'd like to ask you the next question very simply.

If Bill C-21 is enacted as it sits presently, do you feel that this would cause the end of the Olympic sport that you participated in for Canada?

[Lynda Kiejko]

Yes.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to jump to IPSC, please. There has been some discussion today about exactly your sport. I don't know anything about your sport. I've never seen it. There's definitely been a little bit of talk, and some conflicting talk, about the targets and the set-up.

Could someone please explain to me—whoever would like to from your organization—what the targets are and what the set-up is?

[Medha Russell]

Thank you for the question.

If I may, I am, again, not only an athlete and a coach but also a club rep. I put on the matches. As I said earlier, our target that we engage at is paper and steel, and the paper is literally an elongated stop sign. Many years ago, when IPSC started, it was a different target, and some people equated it to looking humanoid, but it was changed when we were looking into.... The organization said that this is a sport and we are strictly engaging paper and steel, so they changed it to the elongated target. I am very happy about that, because it's a sport. I'm engaging at paper and steel.

As far as the course design is concerned, it is an obstacle course. I can give you no better explanation of it. It challenges me physically and mentally as far as multi-tasking goes. If there is a problem, I make sure that I can in the shortest second correct myself and go through that obstacle course—we call it a “course of fire” or a “stage”—in the fastest and most accurate time possible.

It's incredible that at 62 years of age, I can still compete in this sport and tell you proudly that I have the opportunity to represent Canada, because I'm in the top 25 in Ontario. I got there because, like people such as Lynda, we worked, we strived and we trained for excellence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Shipley.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I have many more questions, but I know my time's up. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We'll go to Mr. Noormohamed, please, for four minutes.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you so much.

I must say I hope that when I am 62, I'm in a position to be in the top 25 of anything athletic, though the prospects are not good.

I've been hearing a lot about the importance of what you do as a sport. I think that's important to understand.

This is to the folks from IPSC. Do you think that people who are not engaging in sport shooting in a structured environment such as yours should have guns in their homes?

[Medha Russell]

I've been doing this sport for 31 years. When I started, my husband was already in the sport, so I joined so that I could do something with my husband, travel the world and go all across Canada. I was basically just doing target shooting. I was at the Stittsville ranges, where they have MP days at the range once a year. I was engaging at steel chickens and pigs—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

My question was more that you were doing this because there was some kind of sporting interest or endeavour related to it. Do you think that people who don't have that interest, who just want to buy a gun because they want to have a gun at home, should be buying guns?

[Medha Russell]

We do not have the right in Canada to have firearms for self-defence. That is my understanding. A legislator could correct me if I'm wrong. In Canada, we legally own firearms for recreational shooting sports.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Right. What I'm asking you about is somebody who is not engaging in that. They buy the gun and they say they're going to engage, but they don't. Should they be allowed to have that gun?

[Medha Russell]

If they are purchasing it for target practice and target shooting, I would say, why not? Not everybody gets into golf to go to the Masters. They get into golf so that they can go to the range and have a recreational outlet.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Since we've used the golf analogy, I don't know how many people have died as a result of legal golf clubs.

The question I want to ask you is this: Are you concerned about the fact that legal gun owners were responsible for the mosque shooting in Quebec, the Concordia shooting, the Dawson College shooting and the Moncton shooting of three RCMP officers? Those were all legal gun owners who trained at gun ranges.

Does that concern you?

[Medha Russell]

Any violent and tragic loss of life concerns me. All I can say to you is that we have in place steps to make sure that the people who join our sport as athletes are vetted, and we do not let them pass go if they do not demonstrate attitude and safety.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Let's take a minute to lean into that.

I appreciate your comments earlier about safety and making sure you're doing those checks on people. Let's say somebody owns a gun. They've gone through your process. They come in one day to the range and you can tell that something isn't right with them. They go home, and God forbid that something terrible happens.

Do you have any process in place to make sure that this person doesn't leave? Do you call law enforcement and say, “Hey, listen, we are concerned about a member of ours who may be leaving with a legal firearm”?

Is that a general practice for you, or do you send them away and that's it?

[Medha Russell]

As a previous gentleman who was interviewed by you earlier today said, what we do is take steps to intervene when we see that there's a concern—a safety concern, a health concern. We take steps to intervene. Our officials are trained. We are there.

Number one, we are taught when we go through the National Range Officers Institute that safety is number one. When you take our black badge course to do this sport, you are taught that safety is number one.

All I can respond to is that we as human beings cannot control the fact that there are people who have bad intentions, who will go and rent a vehicle and run it through a group of people. You cannot control the bad things in life, but you can do what you can to make sure you regulate it within your organization and ensure that safety is number one.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I would submit that one of those things is to have fewer guns available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Michaud for two minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have another question for you, Ms. Russell.

I'm trying to understand it all, and sometimes it's difficult to navigate. Earlier, I said the current version of the bill includes a little grey area regarding which people could get an exemption to the current national freeze on handguns.

I know that your organization is also asking for an exemption. What would such an exemption mean to you? What would it change for you, as opposed to a situation where there is no national freeze on handguns? From what I understand, any shooting club can host competitions for the International Practical Shooting Confederation. Normally, anyone with a license can compete, regardless of their level, whether they are a beginner or a person who practises more professionally.

How do you determine who can compete or not? Have you evaluated all these options? What does the exemption you are requesting mean to you?

[Medha Russell]

Thank you for the question.

As far as getting into our sport goes, and with the IPSC organization's request to be exempted from this legislation, what does it mean to me? It means to me that when I die, I can bequeath my firearm that my husband gave to me on my 25th anniversary to perhaps a young aspiring female who wants to excel in my sport. It means that if my equipment breaks down, I can replace it and continue in this sport to 72 or 82, as long as I am mentally and physically able, because age has no bearing. It does not matter as long as you're safe.

How would it have been different? Would any shooting range just apply for this...? As I said earlier, there is a process to get your black badge, and it starts with getting the licensing and getting vetted and becoming a member with a club. All of these steps can take, as I said earlier, anywhere from six to eight months. It is not a quick tout de suite process—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I'm going to have to cut you off there.

[Medha Russell]

Thank you.