Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was weapons.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Let's talk about direction.
Did Minister Blair ever direct you to do anything in respect of this investigation?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
He has never directed me in this investigation or any other investigation during my time as commissioner.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What about his chief of staff, Zita Astravas? Did Zita Astravas ever direct you to do anything in respect of this investigation?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No, never.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What about the Prime Minister or the Prime Minster's Office? Did the Prime Minister's Office ever direct you to do anything?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No, they have not.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No, he has not.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No, they have not.
I have received requests for information, but not direction.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What about other staff in the Minister of Public Safety's office? Did they ever direct you to do anything?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No. I have had ministerial directives on specific administrative matters, but nothing in the operational realm.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
There has been nothing in the operational realm.
If the minister were to direct you to do something in the operational realm, what would your response be?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
It would be, “Sorry, I cannot provide you the information. I cannot do that. You're crossing the line.”
There are a number of things I could say. I've never had to do that, but—
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Absolutely. I have the courage of conviction to do that. That's why I'm commissioner.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
A lot has been made of what appears to be this desire to paint you as being angry or upset on this phone call.
I want to stop for a moment and ask, as you look back, how much of that perceived frustration, or whatever people will try to call it, was about the lack of information and lack of clarity that you were getting from your team in Nova Scotia, versus this idea that you were somehow disappointing the minister?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
About 95% or more was about the lack of flow of information. That's where my frustration was stemming from.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
To be clear, what percentage came out of this perceived direction that some members claim you received?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
I said this in previous testimony: This was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. Getting the wrong information from my staff was yet another example of what was happening throughout those past seven to 10 days.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
To be clear, it was not in response to any direction, because as you said in this testimony, you received no such direction, correct?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Exactly.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
I'm going to ask you the same question that I asked the minister.
There is a very real problem, I think, when parliamentarians choose to act in a way that undermines the credibility of our police services at times of crisis.
What would you say to Canadians who are watching this and who have heard the minister unequivocally state that there was no political interference? They have now heard you unequivocally go through all of the people who could possibly have directed you to do something and you have said that none of them gave you direction.
That's greatly reassuring to me, but what would you say to Canadians to give them the confidence that their police services and the RCMP, in particular, are independent of political interference and have been in the case of what happened in Nova Scotia?
5:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
I would like to say to Canadians that they should have every confidence in, not only the RCMP, but the other 193 police agencies across Canada.
Each and every day, the police officers of the RCMP are out in the communities 24-7 trying to keep Canadians safe. They're doing everything they can to ensure the safety of Canadians by making thorough investigations and bringing people to justice. This is part and parcel what we do and we do it very well. We're a police agency of excellence and we do so many things so well.
I would like Canadians to have confidence not only in the RCMP, but in their police in Canada.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.
Thank you, Commissioner.
Ms. Michaud, you have two and a half minutes.