Evidence of meeting #49 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a couple of things I wanted to clarify.
You mentioned, ma'am, that, as you estimated, 40% of unrestricted firearms would be considered under this new proposed paragraph 84(1)(g) definition. Is that what you were saying, that it's 40% of unrestricted? That's with proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(g) being the semi-automatic shotguns and rifles as defined here.
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
The 40% number applies to the new firearms that are listed in the schedule.
In terms of what firearms would be captured by proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(g), we don't have that information available at the moment. That is a longer process. This provision would not be brought into force immediately on royal assent. It would be brought into force by an order in council.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
If this amendment makes it into Bill C-21 and it passes with this in there, you're saying that even with royal assent, this doesn't come into force?
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
This would come into force by an order in council at a later date. It does not come into force on royal assent.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Do you mean this specific part, or this whole amendment?
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(h) comes in within 30 days of royal assent. It would be “any unlawfully manufactured firearm”, so that is specifically ghost guns.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Okay, so you're saying proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(h), “unlawfully manufactured firearms regardless of the means or method of manufacture”, is being done through order in council?
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
No. That part would be done 30 days after royal assent.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
But.... I'm sorry. I'm not following what you're saying.
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Only proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(h) of the definition comes into force 30 days following royal assent. It's the ghost gun provision. The rest come in by order in council.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
All right. Then the bulk of this amendment and the bulk of what we've been talking about for the last hour, even when this passes, is not coming into force by OIC.
Do you know why it's not being done by OIC, and does it need to be put in this bill at all? If the government can just do it by OIC, I'm not understanding what the process is.
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Sorry. I did make an error.
Some of the provisions would come into force on royal assent because those are already prohibited. It's the codification of the existing list, so those would be by royal assent.
I apologize to members. I did make an error.
The proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(h) definition for the unlawful manufacturing will come into force 30 days following royal assent. For flexibility, the remaining parts of the definition will come into force by OIC, and it allows for flexibility as to when the definition would come into force.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Can they not do that now by OIC? I don't understand why it's needed now, then.
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
The government has choices. It can be on royal assent. It can be 30 days, 60 days, six months or on OIC, which means at a time to be determined by the Governor in Council.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Okay.
Then on this amendment, aside from the parts you're saying will come into force after 30 days, parts of it won't come into force until the OIC says so.
Could the bulk of this amendment that we're talking about not be done by OIC exclusively, then? Does it need to be in this bill and then OIC, or could it just be OIC without this bill?
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
That's a decision to be made by, obviously, ministers in terms of—
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Is it possible to bring different parts in by different means? Yes, it's possible.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
It's possible to expand. The government could ban all semi-automatic weapons just through an OIC, not through this bill. Is that within the powers that they have?
5:45 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
The government has the ability to prohibit firearms through two means. One is by prescription, through the existing regulations. The second way is what's being done here today, which is through legislation amending the Criminal Code.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Okay.
This isn't, I suppose, to you, but if this amendment does not pass, the government could still pass it through OIC. That's a correct statement. I know it's a political one, but it's factually correct, right?
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
If we make this go away, they can still do this. This is what I am asking.
Understood. Thank you for that.
Just to be clear about another thing my colleague asked you, is it the case that you don't have a list of all the models of firearms that are currently legal in Canada that would now be prohibited under proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(g), the semi-auto ban? You don't have that list, but are you working on it?
