Public Safety Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2022

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

With that amendment you've just made, what I've talked about for the last three, five or 10 minutes or whatever is prohibited firearms. They're prohibited weapons now.

I hate to use “weapon”, because they're not a weapon; they're a firearm. They're not just a definition.

The impact of what you're doing is significant right across the whole firearm industry, across the entire Canadian landscape that people use for hunting, for protection of livestock and things like that on farms and ranches across this country. It does absolutely nothing for public safety, as I said, but it prohibits thousands upon tens of thousands of different models of firearms in this country owned by millions of Canadians.

At this point in time, I would really like to see that particular list of what it is we're talking about.

I see here that we're changing the bore diameter. In proposed subclause 2(2.1), in the definition of a prohibited firearm bore diameter, you're describing what it is, but you're saying that making the bore diameter of a firearm 20 millimetres or greater would now make it a prohibited firearm. Is that what you're proposing?

[Paula Clarke]

Those firearms are currently already prohibited—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Yes.

[Paula Clarke]

—pursuant to the classification regulations. This provision adds a definition of what's meant by bore diameter. That's to add clarity, because that issue did arise after the May 1, 2020, OIC.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I was just going to say that they became prohibited again in the order in council of May 2020.

[Paula Clarke]

That's right.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Right. That was asinine to begin with.

Again, I feel sorry for what you guys had to be put through to do this. I really do.

I'm going to cede some of my time to Mr. Lloyd.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

The chair, in fact, will recognize Mr. Lloyd, and then Ms. Dancho after.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for recognizing me.

I have some questions for our officials here.

Was it you guys who drafted this amendment? Is that correct?

[Phaedra Glushek]

The legislative drafters with the Department of Justice draft the legislation. We and our Public Safety and RCMP colleagues assist in giving direction with respect to the drafting.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Okay. Then you could say with confidence that you think this is formatted correctly and it's correct in what it's talking about.

[Phaedra Glushek]

The legislative drafters review the legislation for form and legality. It's underneath their responsibilities in order to do that, but we do assist in providing instructions to legislative counsel.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Were the political staff or the MPs providing the specific information about the 20-millimetre or the semi-automatic aspects, or were they just giving general instructions about general things, and then it was the department or the RCMP that provided the specifics on how that could be accomplished?

[Phaedra Glushek]

The Department of Justice and Public Safety colleagues and RCMP assisted in the development of the policy decision, which is a decision by ministers.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you. I just wanted to confirm that it was political but that it was also the department kind of weighing in on that.

Did the department consult, or was there any consultation, on specifically the provisions regarding semi-automatic with detachable magazines, semi-automatic shotguns or semi-automatic rifles? Were there any consultations done on that?

[Phaedra Glushek]

My colleagues could jump in here, but consultations were undertaken by the Minister of Public Safety—in, I believe, 2019—generally on firearms, handguns, etc.

With respect to the bill, we do not consult on the contents of a bill because of cabinet confidence and privilege.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

The consultation that led to these policies being drafted took place in 2019. Is that what you're saying?

[Phaedra Glushek]

The large consultation that took place with the Minister of Public Safety engaging with stakeholders, etc., took place in 2019. I understand that a report was prepared. It was a very lengthy and comprehensive consultation in advance of the original Bill C-21.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Now, given that the original Bill C-21 that came to this committee didn't make any mention about banning semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, was that talked about in the consultation, as far as you know? Is that document publicly available for us to review?

[Phaedra Glushek]

I can't recall specifically if anything was relating to any kind of prohibition on firearms, but I can say that I believe the report is public.

Perhaps my colleagues can confirm whether or not that report from the Minister of Public Safety's consultation is public.

[Rachel Mainville-Dale, Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Yes. That report is available online.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

I know you said that you didn't know the specifics, Ms. Glushek, but as far as any of the witnesses are aware, was there anything in that consultation document that talked about semi-automatic rifles and shotguns?

[Phaedra Glushek]

I would have to defer to my colleagues or the report itself, because I am unaware.

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Thank you for the question.

I think I would have to defer to the report. I do not have a copy of it in front of me.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I guess I could summarize it that you don't know if there was consultation specifically on this measure about semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. You can't provide evidence today. There might be evidence and you might provide it later, but as far as you know, there was no consultation directly on semi-automatic rifles and shotguns taking place in 2019. Okay. That's interesting.

We know that there was a charter analysis for the original Bill C-21. Has there been any charter analysis updated to reflect these amendments?