Evidence of meeting #58 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
In layman's terms, the AR-10 has bigger bullets than an AR-15. Is that correct?
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
You'll recall the May 2020 OIC. Since that time, the Liberal government has used the AR-15 as the poster child of what is a military-style weapon. I think that's universally agreed on. I don't think that's a controversial thing to say.
You can confirm this if you'd like. My understanding is that the AR-10—which is a variant, a bigger-bullet version of the AR-15—was used by the Yukon government. They bought a bunch of these, after they were prohibited in the May 2020 OIC, for their conservation officers, because they were deemed as the best defence against wildlife. Do you recall this? There are news stories about it.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
I think Ontario has also done this for their conservation officers. Is that your understanding?
10:35 a.m.
President, Wolverine Supplies, As an Individual
Yes, that's correct. Ontario has also used a similar firearm in that calibre.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
That's right. The Ontario and Yukon governments have decided that those firearms are the best defence against wildlife, which is interesting.
Moving on, I want to ask you specifically about the definition, given your technical expertise on firearms. It's specifically in proposed paragraph 1(1.2)(g) in G-4. I'm just going to read it out for the record. This is going to be prohibited. This is the big issue, in addition to the list. It says:
a firearm that is a rifle or shotgun, that is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner and that is designed to accept a detachable cartridge magazine with a capacity greater than five cartridges of the type for which the firearm was originally designed
Can you think of any semi-automatic centrefire rifles that have a magazine that's exclusively five or less? Is that a common firearm? Basically, what I'm asking is whether there are going to be lots of these semi-automatic centrefire rifles with magazine capacity left after these are prohibited as per this definition?
10:35 a.m.
President, Wolverine Supplies, As an Individual
There would be very few, from my understanding. On that, I'm familiar with a Browning model 1900, a Ruger 44 Deerfield, and the first Browning BARs, which is a common semi-automatic hunting rifle. Only the Mark I would fall into that category. Those are the only few that I am aware of.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you very much. A very limited number would not be included in this.
Your expertise is second-generation. You have policing expertise. You've trained others on how to use firearms, and you are a second-generation firearm retailer. For all intents and purposes, this definition bans semi-automatic centrefire rifles that have magazine capabilities.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Okay.
There have been numbers thrown around by the Liberal government regarding 19,000 available firearms. I have a lot of confusion about this.
The list they've provided is not complete. The experts who came to the table said that it was not complete. In fact, I asked them about the definition that I just read out to you. I asked them where the list was for these, because it wasn't included in the 300 pages. They said they didn't have one. The bureaucrats who wrote this have actually no list available. It is unknown. The government does not know how many exist that they are banning.
I find it difficult to understand. You know firearms really well. What are your thoughts?
10:40 a.m.
President, Wolverine Supplies, As an Individual
It's interesting that they said there's a number left. What's left? Are they all available? If those are all of the options available for Canadian hunters, sport shooters, farmers and legal firearms owners, well, what are they? Are they all available in Canada?
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
That's right.
With my last moment here, my understanding is that guns that are not designed to do 10,000 joules can do that if you put enough gunpowder in them. Is that correct? Guns that could be caught under this definition of what's prohibited may be caught because in an extreme circumstance they could be forced to do 10,000 joules. Is that correct?
10:40 a.m.
President, Wolverine Supplies, As an Individual
That's correct. If you increased the amount of powder and a different weight or type of bullet was used, then yes, many other calibres could create 10,000 joules.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
President, Wolverine Supplies, As an Individual
That's correct. Absolutely.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thank you.
I didn't have an opportunity in the last panel to clarify that the Canadian Femicide Observatory.... There were some questions as to the validity of research that they do.
I want to put on the record that it is a very well-respected, non-partisan organization that was established in 2017 at the University of Guelph. I get their monthly newsletter. I encourage anyone watching to sign up for it. It's an interdisciplinary, multisectoral panel of experts from across the country, and one of their objectives was regarding the need for a single location for justice and accountability for femicide victims in Canada. Given the rise of femicides in our country, I think it's important that this organization exists and provides information for us.
Turning to you, Monsieur Bourget, there's been a fair amount of conversation about you being a spokesperson for the National Firearms Association. I'm happy to hear that you don't agree with their comments about mass non-compliance.
Something else that I know they post about and feel strongly about is that citizens should be armed for self-defence. How do you feel about that?
10:40 a.m.
President, Aventure Chasse Pêche
Very honestly, I think that idea comes much more from the American associations than from the Canadian associations.
Connections have actually been made...
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
I'm sorry. To clarify, it absolutely comes from the Canadian National Firearms Association.
10:40 a.m.
President, Aventure Chasse Pêche
Yes, connections have been made and we have analyzed what was going on in the United States in order to respond better to what is going on in Canada in relation to gun crime and users' rights. We gave the example of the drop in crime in certain American states that have adopted open carry or concealed carry.
When the various actors in an association like the National Firearms Association, the NFA, meet, some of them are going to come out in favour of policies like that, and others not. It's a bit like what happens in a committee like this one.
There are actors in the NFA whose definition...
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
One of the posts was a picture of me clutching pearls. Women with firearms.... Whenever I bring up femicides, they're implying that I would be able to protect myself if I only had a firearm.
Do you agree with that kind of mentality?
