Public Safety Committee on Feb. 17th, 2023

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

It's not my survey, Mr. Bourget.

[Martin Bourget]

We could stop right here, easily.

I'd like to know whether this survey was intended for experienced hunters or…

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

The survey was of gun owners in Canada. The surveys were carried out by Léger and Environics, both of which are well-known survey firms.

You are the president of the Aventure Chasse & Pêche magazine, but you are also a spokesperson for the National Firearms Association. Is that correct?

[Martin Bourget]

Yes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Would it be wrong to say that you generally agree with the positions taken by this organization?

[Martin Bourget]

I am a spokesperson insofar as I'm the intermediary between francophone users and the National Firearms Association, the NFA. I act as a go-between. There are significant anglophone resources at the NFA, but not nearly as many francophones. I help francophones who need assistance from people who have information that is only available from the NFA.

I'm not the association's official spokesman, and my mandate is not to spread its mission in French. What I do is act as a go-between to help people who are looking for assistance from the NFA.

For example, I provide administrative assistance to them when there are criminal charges.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

There are several different ways of explaining the concept of a spokesperson. For example, I'm the spokesperson for the Bloc Québécois on matters of public safety. So I naturally share the positions of the Bloc Québécois, because those represent our values.

So if you are the spokesperson for this association, it seems to me that you would adhere to its positions, including the following: the legalization of all firearms, the elimination of the prohibited weapons category, ownership permits, limits on magazines and secure storage rules.

If all of that were to happen, can you tell us how it would improve public safety in Canada?

[Martin Bourget]

I can definitely not explain that to you, and that's your definition.

In my company, I call the person responsible for fully transmitting the company's message a representative. A spokesperson, in my case, is someone to whom instructions are given so that the information is transmitted. It doesn't mean that person supports all of the company's positions, because that's not their mandate.

It can be interpreted in many ways. I'm neither a representative nor a director. They have what are called field officers.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I don't have much time left, Mr. Bourget.

[Martin Bourget]

Go ahead.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

You said that you are record technical reviews. You would therefore appear to be an expert in this area. You must have analyzed what was being proposed by the government in the amendments.

[Martin Bourget]

Yes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

In those, did you find firearms that could reasonably be used for hunting? If so, how many? Could you give us some examples?

[Martin Bourget]

I can't give you a number. It depends on what's available in the market. It would require a much broader study.

However, I could mention a few specific examples. I mentioned the Browning-BAR earlier. This is a semi-iautomatic firearm that is very popular in Canada. I also mentioned the Remington 742 and the Remington 740 Woodmaster, semi-automatic weapons widely used in Canada. On the basis of Mr. Mendicino's answer, they were on the list because they were available or marketed in other countries with higher-capacity magazines.

So I don't have a number for you, but there are a lot of them.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Are there hunters in Canada who use firearms with a calibre of 20 mm or more and that fire projectiles whose initial energy is 10,000 joules or more?

[Martin Bourget]

Yes, absolutely.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Oh yes? What does someone kill with that?

[Martin Bourget]

There are all the Parker Brothers firearms, which are hinged frame action double barrel shotguns, with 12 gauge shells.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

What animal does someone kill with that?

[Martin Bourget]

They are used to hunt partridge, ma'am.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

So you need 10,000 joules or more to hunt partridge.

[Martin Bourget]

No. There we're talking about 20‑millimetre calibre firearms.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

That was the question.

[Martin Bourget]

I'm answering your question. The first part of your question was about the diameter of the barrel.

On the second part of your question, about the number of joules, I would answer that this is absolutely the case. We need only think of all calibres of the Cheytac and Wildcat firearms, which are used in Africa as well as in western Canada to hunt what is called big game.

The problem is that the lack of knowledge has caused confusion on this issue. There is an entire definition for armour piercing firearms that differs enormously in terms of the number of joules required and the type of ammunition needed, which is not available on the market. However, for hunting big game, those firearms are entirely necessary. If you have even a little respect for the life you are preparing to take, to harvest game for your family, yes, it's absolutely necessary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

Thank you, Mr. Bourget.

Mr. Boulerice, the floor is yours for six minutes.