Evidence of meeting #59 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Grand Chief, do you also share these concerns?
Gwich'in Tribal Council
Could I get you to reiterate the question?
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
I was asking if you agree with the Assembly of First Nations unanimously passing the resolution to oppose Bill C-21?
Gwich'in Tribal Council
No, we are not in agreement with that resolution.
Conservative
Gwich'in Tribal Council
It's for the reasons that I outlined in my testimony. We believe that this legislation is required, and we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.
We certainly need some consultation on this, but there are some interesting components and aspects of this legislation, particularly those restrictions around handguns and the red and yellow flag conditions, as well as a lot of the rifles that are listed in the proposed legislation.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
That's not really enough to ask a question, so I'll pass that along.
Thank you, Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Shipley.
We'll go now to Mr. Noormohamed.
You have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for making the time to be with us today.
Chief Lazare, I'd like to start with you.
Can you share with us what the impact of the 2020 OIC was on your community? What was the impact of the 2020 order in council?
Mohawk Council of Kahnawake
I'm sorry. There are so many acronyms in my job, I forget what they are.
I cannot reiterate this enough. There is extreme systemic racism in policing. When you don't train the officers, federally or provincially, on the rights of indigenous peoples, those rights get overlooked.
On an individual basis, in real-life practice, when an individual from my community or any indigenous community is stopped when trying to exercise their right, the officer at hand is not trained properly in how to deal with that matter, is not aware of that matter and is not informed of that matter.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What I'm trying to understand, though.... I agree with you. I think it's really important that all of our law enforcement is well aware of the challenges your communities face.
What I'm trying to understand, though, is this. Given that there was the carve-out specifically for indigenous communities in the order in council in 2020, I'm trying to understand what the specific impact, if any, was on your community.
If there wasn't one, the question I would ask is whether a similar carve-out would be helpful to you in any future...in Bill C-21, for example.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What I'm trying to understand is, given that there was a specific carve-out in the order in council in 2020 that protected the rights of indigenous communities to continue to hunt, would something like that in Bill C-21 not address your concerns, given, hopefully, that there was no impact from 2020?
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
It wouldn't.
I'm trying to understand. If there was no impact in 2020, why would a similar provision now cause concern?
Mohawk Council of Kahnawake
There is an impact.
I don't know how to explain this. I'm sorry. I'm tripped up for words.
There is an impact in terms of the awareness. I know you're saying that law enforcement is aware. They're aware of our struggles and they're aware of the challenges.
They are not properly educated, and they are not properly trained. That's the challenge. You can say all you want. You can put it in legislation that there are exceptions, but when it comes into practice, that's where the challenge really lies.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
The issue is in the implementation of the legislation.
Mohawk Council of Kahnawake
It's in the implementation and the resources.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
I get it. Okay. That's helpful to know, because I think it helps us understand some of the challenges around this.
Grand Chief, can I ask you the same question? What were the impacts on your community following the 2020 order in council, if there were any?
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
If there were a similar carve-out or a similar exemption for indigenous communities in Bill C-21, how would you feel about that? Would that be helpful?
Gwich'in Tribal Council
We need to understand the weapons that have been identified. As I stated earlier, for this to be proper legislation, we would need to discuss what these potential exemptions would be.
From our perspective, we could certainly share the rifles and shotguns that are typically used by our people, such that there is no need for an exemption and they are not on the prohibited list.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
In your answer to my friend, Mr. Shipley, you talked about the importance of making sure this legislation is passed. You said, “We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water,” and I think you are right. All of us recognized that there was room for improvement, and I think that is a very important premise for why we are having the conversations.
Can you explain to us why, for your community, this legislation is important, and why it's important for us to not throw the baby out with the bath water and to come to a good outcome?
Gwich'in Tribal Council
We're starting to see an increased prevalence of drugs and illicit activity in our communities. Like in a lot of indigenous communities across the country, gangland violence is a concern. Some of the weapons that have been listed on this potential legislation are often carried by these individuals. They are used to incite fear, intimidation and ultimately compliance among our people.
Looking forward into the future, any legislation that looks to restrict.... Some of these assault or automatic weapons that are typically military in nature need to be removed, because as we look toward things like potential self-government for our Gwichʼin region, we need our police forces to have the equipment and the weaponry to be able to combat some of these criminals.