Public Safety Committee on March 10th, 2023

[Dr. Najma Ahmed, Doctor, Canadian Doctors for Protection from Guns]

I'll take that question, thank you.

We've met with representatives from many parties, including municipal and federal representatives from the NDP government as well as the Liberal government, and we have sought to meet with members of the Conservative government but have, as of yet, not been successful.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I'm the lead on this file. I don't believe I've ever received an invite, but if I have, I'm happy to meet with you anytime.

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

That's good to hear.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Absolutely.

I know that you have met with Jagmeet Singh, which is great to see, but you've specifically met with the Liberals since 2019, either the PMO, staff, Minister Mendicino, Minister Blair or Minister Freeland. In fact, since 2019, it's been 22 times.

Is that correct? That's what I have from the lobbyist registry.

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

I can't verify the number of times. It's true that we've been in communication, email communication or phone communication, with multiple ministers on this file. That is correct.

I am a constituent of Minister Freeland, and I've met with her on various matters while she's been in government.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you.

I'm just taking the numbers from the official lobbyist registry. I appreciate that, and, again, the feedback you've provided to this committee is an important piece of what we're discussing.

Dr. Ahmed, I want to ask you about a few things. Again, I know that certainly the Canadians Doctors for Protection from Guns has met with the Liberals 22 times in the last few years and certainly has appeared at committee before, but I did want to ask you about some of the positions you've taken concerning firearms.

On July 6, 2020, you tweeted out that you were in favour of banning civilian ownership of guns. You said, “Honestly—it's the guns, it's the guns. Ban civilian ownership of guns.”

On January 15—

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

May I answer?

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I'm just going to finish, and then I'll go over to you.

On January 15, 2019, you said “No civilian needs access to guns” on Twitter. On December 18, 2019, you retweeted something from an account called NoGunsInCanada.

Again, your group has met with the Liberal government to advise on policy several times, and the position that you've taken is that no one in Canada should own guns. Would you like to comment on that?

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

Yes, I'd like to correct the record.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Please do.

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

Our organization has met with members of different and various parties and continues to seek an audience with the Conservative government and would be happy to do so at any time.

Our position statement is very clearly articulated on our website. We support an evidence-informed policy to reduce harm, death and injury from guns, including legislation to ban the most lethal types of weapons, which is what we are—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Dr. Ahmed. Thank you very much.

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

May I finish?

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I am going to continue. I have a few more questions but, again, I appreciate that you've met with Freeland on other issues as well.

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

I'd like to clarify for the record, please, that our organization does not support the banning of civilian ownership of all guns.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I'm sorry. Are you saying that the policy of the group you're representing is not to ban all civilian ownership? Is that just your personal opinion?

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

No, it's not my personal opinion either. It's my personal opinion and the position of the group to ban handguns and semi-automatic weapons, but not civilian use of all weapons.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you very much.

Okay, so what you've tweeted on three separate occasions endorsing the ban of all civilian ownership, you don't—

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

That's a misrepresentation.

Thank you.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Those are the words that you wrote, ma'am, respectfully, on Twitter. I read them verbatim. It's fine.

I noted that you have mentioned evidence as well, but there were two studies on your website that your group has since removed. Again, new studies come and it's fine to add and remove them, but I did note that the two studies that were removed don't serve the policy position that you've taken.

In fact, one of them in particular was talking about suicide and the correlation between firearm restrictions and suicide. The study itself, which has now been removed from your website, suggests that suicide was not decreased by restrictions of firearms. In fact, unfortunately, as other evidence has shown, if people want to commit suicide, they will use whatever means they can. I did find it interesting that it was removed from your website, and I know your group has cited a lot of information, so it's just a bit odd to me.

There was another study that you removed from your website as well that did not support your conclusion. It said, “Specific laws directed at firearm trafficking, improving child safety, or the banning of military-style assault weapons were not associated with changes in firearm homicide rates. The evidence for laws restricting guns—

Again, that was removed from your website.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

That is time.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wish I had that last minute, but thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I understand.

I invite the witness to respond in 30 seconds, if you wish to respond.

[Dr. Najma Ahmed]

I would just make the point that there's overwhelming evidence internationally that decreasing access to lethal means decreases suicide rates on a national level, on a per-population level, and that the majority of people do not substitute a lethal mechanism. Even if people attempt suicide and that attempt does not result in their death, the majority of people who survive a suicide attempt do not go on to—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Chair, I do feel that if the witness is going to be allowed to go over time, she should have to table the required evidence that she's talking about.