Public Safety Committee on May 4th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We do not have unanimous consent.

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

We'll carry on now with our list. We go to Mr. Calkins.

I'm sorry, Mr. Julian, were you not finished?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I'm just putting myself back on the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Okay, you bet.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I was on the list to speak to the main amendment, not the subamendment. I'll ask to be put back on the main amendment speaking list for now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The problem I have with Mr. Julian's unanimous consent motion is that—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

On a point of order, was that not decided? We've moved on now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Yes, Mr. Julian's motion was defeated. It was not strictly a motion; it was a unanimous consent request.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

We're on the subamendment from Ms. Michaud, right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

That's correct; we're debating the subamendment.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you. I'm sure the Chair will give me a bit of latitude.

We can't judge past performances and say that they're going to be the future. The assertion that we're going to be here until October 2025 is ludicrous. It's not going to happen.

We'll continue on. Conservatives will not be in support of the subamendment as moved by Ms. Michaud.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Lloyd.

Ms. Damoff, please go ahead.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

The member who moved this is someone for whom I have the utmost respect. I know she does a lot of work, and I know she knows her subject well. It pains me to say that we can't support her amendment; however, there was a lot of work done to come up with the wording that we have before us. I have had the unfortunate position of amending on the fly at committee on previous bills, and it can have unintended consequences.

I think, given the amount of work that went in and the consultation from the minister and his team to come up with wording that could be supportive, that not everyone is going to agree with it. That's fine, but unfortunately we're not able to support the subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Damoff.

Ms. Michaud, you have to floor.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank my colleagues for their comments.

If I may reply to Mr. Julian, who said that my subamendment brings us back to the definition that was suggested in November. That is partly but not entirely true. The definition that was submitted in November talked about a “a firearm that is a rifle or shotgun”. That part has been withdrawn. So it is not the same thing. That definition also spoke of a firearm “that is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner and that is designed to accept a detachable cartridge magazine with a capacity greater than five cartridges of the type for which the firearm was originally designed”. The new definition and the old definition are similar, however.

I would remind my colleague that what I am proposing today is the work of the Nova Scotia Mass Casualty Commission. I would also remind him that the minister did say he was open to applying the recommendations of the Mass Casualty Commission.

That is all I have to say, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

We'll go now to Mr. Julian again.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm disappointed by Conservatives not allowing for the additional committee hearings that are needed around this, given how slow.... They have said that they are not engaged in a filibuster. They are honourable members. I know each of them, and I know that they may not perceive that they're doing a filibuster, but I think others would see it differently.

Certainly, looking now at coming up to three and half or four hours with just one amendment adopted, we can do the math with 145 amendments, and it's exponential. The other element that's exponential, of course, is the plague—the epidemic—of ghost guns on the—

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Madame Michaud, go ahead on a point of order.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The debate is supposed to be about my subamendment, and not the request on which we already voted and about which Mr. Lloyd couldn't talk anymore. I don't think that Mr. Julian can say anything else on the issue either.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

I would suggest that Mr. Julian take that into account, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Michaud is absolutely right on that point, but it is vital to point out that the process is not working right now. I just wanted to say that.

As for the subamendment, I have already said what I wanted it to say. I can go back to the amendment once we have settled the issue of the subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Mr. Lloyd, you're up next on my list.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I guess my question is for Ms. Michaud.

A firearm is not designed to accept a specific magazine of a specific size. Magazines come in all ranges and sizes. It's not the function of a firearm to determine the size of a magazine. It's the function of a magazine to determine the size of a magazine.

I'm very concerned that this wording, in an open-ended way, could lead to the banning of a large number of semi-automatic hunting rifles and shotguns. I'm wondering whether Ms. Michaud has considered that this would potentially lead to the banning of a large number of hunting rifles and shotguns, and what her thoughts are on that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Lloyd is at the end of the list. Does anyone wish to speak again?

Go ahead, Madame Michaud.