Public Safety Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Evelyn Fox]

That's okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

The five minutes is up. Please accept from me and from all members of the committee our sincerest condolences on your loss.

[Evelyn Fox]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

We grieve with you.

Mr. Miller, you now have the floor for up to five minutes for your opening remarks.

Please proceed.

[Richard Miller, Founder, Keep6ix]

Good morning, Mr. Chair. I want to thank you so much for inviting me to be a part of this very important conversation.

I am Richard Miller, the founder of the Keep6ix non-profit organization. Keep6ix engages with individuals who have had their lives affected by the criminal justice system. I have lived experience within the justice system; therefore, I believe I can speak to the issues concerning individuals who have made bad decisions and consequently ended up in the justice system.

There are a couple of points I would like to address.

Keep6ix has developed a program called “Gangs 4 Tuition”. This program gives individuals an opportunity to trade gang lifestyles for education in skilled trades and the tech sector by means of mentorship and expert-delivered training programs, along with life coaching. Gangs 4 Tuition carries a follow-up component to ensure success of the participant by keeping the participant accountable for each aspect of the program.

I am here today to partner with you in order to continue to grow this program on a national level in order to effect positive changes in the following areas.

The first area is to reduce crime rates by providing individuals with a positive lifestyle through the acquisition of transferable skill sets and training, leading to employment and sustainable, self-sufficient living.

Next is economic empowerment. Young adults are empowered through financial literature to make investments in their own health and education.

The third area is mental health issues. Keep6ix provides mental health counselling to individuals who are registered in our Gangs 4 Tuition program.

Next is education about public safety and targeting at-risk youth and young adults before they get into trouble. Most of them are from single families with no guidance. The programs allow them the opportunity, through mentorship, to live a life without violence. Keep6ix also has a program that allows individuals to turn in a firearm to our program which in turn is turned over to the police department.

Next, individuals within our programs are given ongoing support. As you are aware, 90% of individuals who are incarcerated have a mental health concern. Consequently, Keep6ix provides counselling sessions on mental health for individuals in our program.

Last, organizations like Keep6ix continue to find ways to reduce the amount of guns in our community, which in turn will put an end to violence.

Keep6ix is a non-profit organization and is willing and ready to partner with any organization to ensure the safety of the public.

I thank you for this opportunity to speak on this platform. My desire is to garner support to continue this work, which we have been doing for the past five years.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Miller.

Now I'll open the floor for questions.

To lead us off, Mr. Lloyd, you have six minutes.

The floor is yours, sir.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Fox and Mr. Miller, for your testimony.

I want to start by saying thank you for the excellent work that you're doing in our communities.

Throughout this committee, the words that you have put forward have been echoed by law enforcement: that we need more investment in community-based approaches and that we are woefully underfunding community-based approaches to divert at-risk youth from a life of crime and to get people who are in a life of crime to divert away from a life of crime.

What specific measures do you think this committee could recommend that would be most effective for the government to dedicate resources to in order to reduce gun violence and to reduce youth gang activity?

Thank you.

Ms. Fox, you can go first.

[Evelyn Fox]

Thank you.

In 2008, as I said, the “Review of the Roots of Youth Violence” report was released after the 2005 “year of the gun” issue we had in the city of Toronto.

Outlined in that report are various recommendations that were put out by the provincial government to tackle [Technical difficulty—Editor] youth engage in the violence. Poverty is one of the number one issues, and the rest filter down in terms of systemic racism, the education system and the lack of housing. Anyone who's been to Toronto or Vancouver knows that the cost of living in our cities is unbelievable. You can't survive in the city unless you're an upper-income person.

It's not surprising that we have the level of violence that we have when we continue to see the financial gaps grow and people just trying to survive. The trauma that is left in these communities.... Some people who I support have lost more than one family member or friend— multiple people. They never have a chance to even attempt to heal before another one is taken.

We hardly have any services that cater to community violence, which is one of the reasons I started my organization. Trying to find myself and my children continuous supports was horrible. It was absolutely horrible trying to navigate, and I work in social services. It's very difficult to find resources that are culturally specific and that people have the ability to connect with to deal with the trauma they've been exposed to.

You have children who are growing up through all of this trauma, and it's becoming somewhat normal to them to the point where.... What would we expect them to do, living in this environment?

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Yes, thank you for that.

I will go to Mr. Miller, but I have one final, quick question, Ms. Fox.

Clearly, there's a potential plan by this government to spend up to $1 billion, perhaps more, to buy back firearms, which we know will be predominantly bought back from legal owners. They'll primarily be long guns, not hand guns.

Do you think this would have any impact on the youth you're talking about and the people involved in a life of crime? Is this going to have any impact on them? Do you think that $1 billion dollars could be better spent on the programs that you're saying are needed?

[Evelyn Fox]

The short answer would be no, it would not have any affect at all. The long answer is that it absolutely infuriates me that the government that is supposed to be acting on our behalf is willing to dump more than $1 billion into a buyback from legal owners, and the $250 million that's been promised over the past six years still hasn't been filtered down to the provinces and the municipalities. That is a drop in the bucket compared to what communities across Canada require to do the real work.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Miller, what are your thoughts on my first line?

[Richard Miller]

Can you repeat your first question again, please?

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

We're seeing youth getting involved in a life of crime. Thank you for the work you've been doing in that. What sort of specific programs do you think are required to be most effective at diverting youth from a live of crime and, if they are in a life of crime, getting them out of a life of crime?

[Richard Miller]

From the work that we've been doing, one of the main factors is the employment and the trade. We find that individuals are able to be in a setting where they feel they're giving back, but also they're able to provide for themselves.

I'll give you a brief example. We have individuals who are into the trades and the union. These individuals or young people, who come from a marginalized community, were making $37 dollars an hour. You have an individual who has a $60,000 a year income starting out. That alone says a lot. It gives these individuals a more positive aspect of not—as they would say to me—looking over their backs.

That is my first take on it. The next thing we have to deal with is their trauma. We look at incarcerations—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

You'll have to wrap it up in 10 seconds please, Mr. Miller.

[Richard Miller]

Sure. We have to look at dealing with the trauma that they have gone through because that plays a big role in their actions and their behaviour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

Now I would turn the microphone over to Mr. Noormohamed.

You have six minutes. Please proceed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing my time with Mr. McKinnon.

Mr. Miller, I'm asking you this question with the backdrop of the murder of the 18-year-old youth yesterday at David and Mary Thomson high school in Scarborough. His grandmother actually is a colleague of my partner.

I ask you this question reflecting on the work that you do, which is incredible, by the way. I want to thank you for what you do. You've made it clear that getting these weapons—these guns—off the streets and out of the hands of young people is critical.

Can you share with us two things? Why is it critical to take these weapons off the streets? What should we as legislators be doing to make sure that happens?

[Richard Miller]

The reason it's important to take the guns off the streets and from the hands of these young people is the fact that young people are resorting to death threat measures with these firearms. If we're able to get these firearms off the street and out of the hands of these young people, we're able to then deal with the issues they are suffering from within and put them on a more positive path.

Once we are able to curve the weapon issue itself, we can address and work with these young people. At the end of the day, we have to look. There's an underlying issue within every one of these individuals who are getting into these situations with firearms.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have one more question for you. How easy is it for these young people to get weapons right now?

[Richard Miller]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] to get right now. I'm sure if they go to the right place in the city, an individual can get themselves a firearm probably within a three-hour basis, tops.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

It's a lot for us to think about.

Thank you, Mr. Miller. Again, I appreciate everything that you do.

I'll yield the rest of my time to Mr. McKinnon.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

Mr. Miller, I'm just wondering if you could comment on the origins of the firearms that are being used here.

If we get rid of legal firearms, we understand that there's also an emerging opportunity to create weapons, or ghost guns if you will, with printed parts and so forth. I'm wondering if you can comment on these other sources of firearms and whether they are a factor.

[Richard Miller]

When it comes to getting rid of firearms, the issue is not arising from the legal individual who has a registered firearm. The firearm that is committing the crime is not the firearm that was registered to Mrs. or Mr. Johnson, unless there was a break and enter in this problem.

These firearms are being transported in the underground sector into the country through the borders in different ways. We have to look at that.

Just briefly speaking about the buyback program, has anyone ever taken the time to look at even the firearms that are being turned in from the buyback program? These are not the firearms that are committing the murders in our community. These are the firearms that Mrs. Johnson or Tom had. He might have passed away and the family member is getting rid of it.

If we're going to spend a lot of money on this, we have to focus on the actual issue.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

The actual issue is not the buyback of legal firearms; it is the black market trade in firearms. Is that what you're saying?