Evidence of meeting #8 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
February 15th, 2022 / 12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to respond to Mr. McKinnon's earlier comment that this special committee is going to be examining many of the questions this committee would also be interested in coming to a better understanding about. We are the masters of our own committee and the work we do. I don't think that we don't do that work because someone else might do it for us.
This is very important for all Canadians. The number of emails and correspondence I'm getting from people in my constituency suggests to me that this is a very important issue that Canadians want answers about. We want to know how the RCMP is conducting its operations and what the CBSA has done, and what it could have done, to prevent some of these issues from happening. There's also the OPP. It's very incumbent upon us to ask these questions to come to a better understanding. That's exactly what this committee is for, and I think it is the work we should be doing.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Are there any other hands up before we go to a recorded vote on the amendment?
Mr. Clerk, are there any in the room?
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll just quickly add to Mr. Chiang and Mr. McKinnon's comments about the lack of comments that current-serving police services may be able to make about the current situation and the operations. I agree with that, but many of the experts coming may be able to tell us what's happened in similar instances on different occasions and how those situations were handled. It might be a good learning experience for anybody who's viewing it and for our committee. While they may not be able to speak in great detail about current operations, they might be able to give us a lot of information about past similar occurrences that they have dealt with and that perhaps ended a little quicker.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Very quickly, because I want to get to a vote, I'm not interested in so much of what's going on under the Emergencies Act and anything that is operational in nature. The thrust of my main motion is to examine how we got to the point where the Emergencies Act was required.
I think my Conservative and Bloc colleagues agree with me. This is really about examining intelligence failures and a lack of coordination from January 29 up until the present day. How did we get to this point? That's what I want us to focus on.
I believe, Mr. Chair, we probably have the votes to proceed. I will end there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Yes, as long as nobody else wants to make a comment.
Are there any other hands up? I don't see any on the screen.
Clerk, are there any other hands up in the room?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Okay. We can then proceed to a recorded vote on the amendment. Is that correct?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Go ahead, Mr. Clerk.
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)
I want to confirm, Mr. McKinnon, that you were polled.
Liberal
Conservative
Conservative
Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON
Thank you.
I don't want to get too far into the back-and-forth once again, but I would make one last appeal to some of my colleagues across the across the way. This is a very strong motion put forward by the NDP. I would encourage them to support it.
I'm not trying to reiterate what's already been said, but as Mr. MacGregor has said, he is looking at what has happened leading up to this point. He is looking back toward the past. We shouldn't necessarily be assuming what might or might not be said, or might be able to be said. This is an incredible opportunity for the committee to do really important work, and have an understanding of how we got to this point and how we move forward.
I hope all members will support this motion moving forward.
I wanted to make that one last appeal. I appreciate your affording me that time, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Quickly, Chair, I want to go back and reference that the committee has voted to do a study on this issue. The motion before us is, I think, the second, or actually the third motion we've had, if we include our study. We've voted to start a study as soon as the constituency week is over, that will be taking a really deep dive into this. We can get the answers we're looking for.
It's important to remember that. If we keep doing this, we're delaying the good work of the committee on important issues like the guns and gangs study we're doing now and the deeper dive we're going to do.
We won't be supporting the motion. We would have supported it if it could have been delayed until after the Emergencies Act, but we won't be supporting the motion as it is written right now.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you.
Are there any other hands up or any commentary before we move to the vote?
I see Mr. Lloyd.
Go ahead.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It just appears that the ground keeps shifting under the Liberals' position on this. We had quick studies over the past few weeks. We brought FINTRAC to committee. We've interrupted this very important study on crime, gun control and gangs to deal with very urgent issues that are facing this country. I just think it's a bit disingenuous to say that we don't want to delay this important study. Well, it's already been delayed numerous times when it was what the government wanted to do, but now that it's what.... Opposition parties are very concerned about what's been taking place across the country for the past few weeks.
I found that the FINTRAC testimony was extremely helpful last week in terms of giving us an idea of how our financial intelligence works in this country. It certainly made me much better informed. Learning last night, when the government was saying they want to talk about freezing Canadians' bank accounts, I found it tremendously helpful that we had had our deputy director of intelligence, Barry MacKillop, last week. I think that just demonstrates further why it's so important.
The national deputy director of FINTRAC was able to tell us key information during an ongoing situation. It sort of belies the government's argument that we can't get any useful information from law enforcement and other witnesses during an ongoing situation. I think it's absolutely critical that we figure out how we got here as a country and that we move forward with this motion as soon as possible, as Mr. MacGregor has said, so that we can bring Canadians answers, because there's so much confusion in this country right now.
My email inbox and my phone lines are off the hook. Canadians don't understand why a piece of legislation, which is older than I am, is now being invoked in this country. They don't know what the implications of this legislation are. They don't know why we have come to the point where we need this legislation. I think it's very important that we have the RCMP and OPP to give us some context on what their actions have been during this.
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor, for bringing this up. I just don't think that the arguments coming from the government side really have a lot of merit in this situation.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Are there any other hands up? Is there any other commentary before we go to the vote?
