Public Safety Committee on Nov. 6th, 2025

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Minister, this is a fairly simple question. Why is the wording being changed? Why are we not using what was there before, i.e., an explicit prohibition on transmitting documents?

It frightens a lot of people. I’m asking you this because some groups have made us aware of this issue. I don’t understand why the wording is being changed. People are worried, and perhaps with good reason.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Alexis, if that's an amendment that you want to make, we would be more than willing to look at the proposed changes. It is really led by the Minister of Immigration, so I will bring it to her.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do you have anything to add, Mr. Gionet or Ms. Lang?

[Tara Lang, Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

There are a number of different changes that are happening in the bill with regard to information sharing.

The first is in IRPA. It's a regulation-making authority to allow IRCC to disclose information for the purpose of co-operation with federal partners in prescribed scenarios. This would require future regulations and information-sharing agreements to be put in place before that would happen.

This authority mirrors what exists in IRPA for making regulations for co-operation with provinces and territories, and also parallels the same authorities in the Citizenship Act.

The second part would be amendments to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Act. The changes here are breaking down barriers to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Ms. Lang, I’m going to cut you off, unfortunately.

Thank you for your intervention, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

Ms. Kirkland, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much.

I might use all of my minutes. If not, I may give some to Mr. Au.

Minister, I respect some of the things you said in your opening statement. You mentioned some things like keeping safe and secure, and keeping borders across our countries safe. You used the word “proactive” and you used the word “urgency” to get law enforcement the tools they need. You also applauded the hard-working CBSA and RCMP officers and said that we owe them a debt of gratitude. These are some of your words, and I couldn't agree more.

We've had discussions in previous committee meetings with Mark Weber, who is the union president for CBSA agents. He indicated to us that there would be some difficulty in getting 1,000 new border agents. I don't really want to bring that up, and I know it's going to take time to get 1,000 new border agents.

My concern is with what he said. It brought some discovery to committee in terms of attrition for CBSA agents. We train 600, and 600 leave through attrition. He referenced some toxicity in terms of the workplace for them—inland officers as well as border officers—and I'm wondering if you can comment, or if you're aware of some of that.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I appreciate the question, and I appreciate where this question is coming from.

First of all, I've been to maybe 15 ports of entry. I have met with a number of leaders as well as those who are working on the front line. I make a point of talking to people.

I can't assess the workplace just based on those visits. I do leave it to...and I have regular meetings with the union. If there are issues, I would be more than willing to engage them.

I do have full confidence in our president and the work that she's been doing on that.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

That's fair. I may refer some questions to Ms. O'Gorman as well.

Minister, you and I were saying earlier that we live near the same area. You're in Scarborough, and I'm in Oshawa. I learned recently from a constituent of mine that there are currently 450 grievances that officers have brought forward, just in the GTA.

Ms. O'Gorman, you're aware of these, I'm sure.

[Erin O'Gorman]

Yes. I'll tackle a couple of issues.

It's a large workforce that, in many instances, operates in difficult and stressful circumstances. We have professional standards. We have a large labour relations group. There are many doors that people can go to if they have concerns, and I'm regularly briefed on that.

I need to make sure people know where to go and that we can make decisions as quickly as possible. We work actually quite closely with the union to try to bring the number of grievances down. Some will be policy grievances, and there might be many policy grievances—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Okay. I want to get to the next point, because I am getting somewhere, and I want to get there quickly if I can.

Are you noticing a toxic culture? Has it come up at all that there's a toxic culture, specifically for women officers? Have you heard that at all?

[Erin O'Gorman]

We've had some cases that were difficult cases that resulted in discipline. Are there more cases relating to women in the workplace than men—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I'm asking specifically about discrimination against women in the workplace.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that we want to have 1,000 new border officers. How are we going to get there if the attrition is so high because it's such a toxic culture? I do want to bring this up specifically, because I'm aware of several women who have felt afraid to actually bring a grievance forward for fear of reprisal from CBSA. They're afraid to bring them forward.

Can you please comment on that?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Ms. Kirkland, if you'll permit me, let me answer that.

First of all, I want to thank the president. I know the leadership she offers to CBSA.

Any allegations of this sort are something that both of us, but I particularly, would want to hear more about. I would invite you.... During constituency week, I'll be more than willing to come to Oshawa to meet with some individuals on a without-prejudice basis.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

That sounds like a great plan. I would love to do that.

My time is up, so I want to say that's very important, specifically if we're going to increase security at our borders. If we're not taking care of the attrition and the toxic culture for our officers, whom we respect so much, then we're not going to be able to do that. I think it needs to be a top priority.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I make my commitment to you on this and—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

We need to be proactive and urgent. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Sorry to interrupt that great conversation.

We now need to turn to MP Ehsassi for five minutes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. O'Gorman, I note that my colleague opposite has taken a sudden interest in K-9s that are fentanyl-sniffing dogs. I wanted to clarify a few things on that.

We heard from the minister that at the Five Eyes gathering last month in the U.K., there was a lot of discussion on these dogs.

Would it be fair to say that this is a very new and emerging tool that the various countries are considering?

[Erin O'Gorman]

It is. The safety of our officers and trainers is paramount, and the nature of fentanyl has meant the ability to get adequate inert but sufficiently close materials to train the dogs has been difficult. We're working with the U.S., and we're working with others. We have people actively doing that right now. I believe training is under way.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

This is a very new and emerging tool that's being used by the U.S., Canada and our other Five Eyes partners. Is that correct?

[Erin O'Gorman]

It is, to the extent to which we can deploy dogs to fentanyl.

I would also say that our detector dogs are an excellent tool, but one of many.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I know this is very cutting edge. I find it quite disheartening that the Conservative Party is always trying to undermine the credibility of the RCMP and the CBSA officers, but it would be fair to say that the RCMP and the CBSA are just as pioneering in their efforts as other authorities around the world are on training these fentanyl-sniffing dogs.

Would that be a correct assessment?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Yes, we speak to the Five Eyes and other countries regularly. They learn from us, and we learn from them. Our officers will be very up to speed on what others are doing. We often have countries come to visit our facilities in Rigaud, where we do our training.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Right now we're also collaborating very closely, not only with all the Five Eyes but with the U.S. in particular. Is that correct?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Yes.