Evidence of meeting #15 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was section.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I wouldn't want to qualify it as a loophole right now. It may be contained elsewhere in the legislation, and I can certainly confer with colleagues quickly and get back to you if that's acceptable.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
Okay. Can you make sure that there's some kind of provision to make sure that the other party understands the request. In Canada, we are a multicultural society. In many cases French and English might not be the person's first language and they might have difficulty understanding the request. I don't want their lack of understanding because of the language barrier to be seen as obstructing the officers in carrying out their duties. I just want to make sure that the language issue is being addressed.
You said there's also a time reference for the other party to respond. When the officer makes a request, do they have to respond immediately or can they engage in consultation? I can think of the situation where perhaps the person the officer is dealing with is only a caretaker—he's the lowest person in the hierarchy—and may say he doesn't have authority to open the door for an inspection. How would you address those situations?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
On the time provision, there is nothing specifically that I'm aware of around the time required for the person to respond back.
I will say to your previous question, under the Customs Act, the request can be made in either official language and that has worked operationally with the transporter. There's an operational relationship that exists between these transporters and the BSOs because they are often engaging on a daily basis.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
I know you've acted legally in terms of the two official languages, but what if the person doesn't understand and delays in responding? Would he or she be charged with obstructing the duties of an officer?
They are not intending to obstruct, but in that situation, what would happen?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I'd have to get back to you on that. I do know that there are provisions within the Customs Act around obstruction of an officer, but I am not able to testify today whether they would come into play in that situation.
I'm being told that it would be taken into account in terms of the officer's discretion.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
Then, in the case of the person at the bottom of the hierarchy, can he or she consult with the person who controls the premises, the owner or the operator?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Absolutely. It's my understanding that that type of operational coordination within the transporter or the warehouser would take place in order to grant the official access. It would be an official request under the Customs Act to access and there may be a time requirement. Transporters are often moving goods rather rapidly through the supply chain infrastructure. There is sometimes a time-pressing component associated with the BSOs' ability to access the goods before they actually move off-premise and further up the supply chain potentially to, say, the port of Montreal.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
How do you define the person in control of the premises? Is it the caretaker, the owner?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
The person who is considered to be in control of the premises is defined in section 42.2 of the Customs Act already, which defines who is considered to be in control of the goods that are being moved.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
I also see that there are two different terms. In proposed section 97.01, you used “the persons in control”, but in 97.02, you used “the operator”.
What is the technical difference between the operator and the person in control or person in charge?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
The warehouse itself contains the goods, so it is operated by a person. The definitions that are contained within the Customs Act use that to define a warehouse operator, whereas for transportation, they define that as the person who is in control and has care of the goods. It comes back to the definitions within the Customs Act and how they are laid out within the act in earlier parts of the provisions.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
In proposed section 97.02, if there's only a caretaker on site and he's not the owner or operator, again, what will happen? Can the caretaker say, “I'm not the operator. I cannot open the door for you”?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
It is my understanding that the request would have to be made to the person who is deemed the operator of the warehouse as defined in the act, which would not be the caretaker who is answering the door, for example.
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
There are provisions within the Customs Act. I don't have the exact provisions right now that define who those people are. The request would need to be submitted to those persons in order to allow them to have access to the site.
November 25th, 2025 / 4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
You're saying that it may not be the caretaker on site?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
It's my understanding that, as defined within the Customs Act, that is not the caretaker on site.
Conservative
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
If you're talking to the caretaker, and he says, “I'm not the operator. You know, talk to the operator,” then you have to find the operator and make a phone call or whatever, so there could be a time lapse.
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes.
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Potentially. Again, I'm sorry, sir, I'm not a frontline operator dealing with these situations every day. I will try to get from my colleagues explicit clarity on this, but my understanding is that an operational lag between when the request is made to the person at the site versus the person as defined in the act is an appropriate component within that.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
Thank you. That's what I'm seeking—clarification.
How do you define warehouse?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Warehouses are defined specifically within the Customs Sufferance Warehouses Regulations, which are made under the provisions of the Customs Act. There are publicized regulations that manage our warehousing provisions and define what a warehouse is and the different types of warehouses.
Conservative
Chak Au Conservative Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC
Let me give you an example. If I have 50 boxes of goods and for some reason I bring one box back to my home overnight, would it turn my home into a warehouse?
Do you need permission to enter my house?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
What is a warehouse and what isn't a warehouse is defined within the warehousing regulations. That particular scenario would not, from my understanding, qualify your house as a warehouse. You would not have a licence to be considered a warehouse and you would not be subject to the warehousing regulations as defined by the government.
That would not be a warehouse.