Public Safety Committee on Nov. 25th, 2025

[Liam McGuinty]

I think there's merit to it, certainly.

Part of the challenge is the number of cars being stolen. Also, sometimes you don't realize that a car has been stolen and it doesn't get reported until sometime after. There are challenges with intercepting a car on the way from, let's say, your driveway to the final port of exit, which is why this bill and other efforts by the government to focus on that choke point are important.

It is typically a circuitous journey from your driveway to a cooling-off parking lot to perhaps another cooling-off parking lot and then up the road, etc. There could be opportunities for law enforcement to intercept. I think you've seen a really strong focus by law enforcement in central Canada and elsewhere, new investments and a keen focus on stopping auto theft. One of the reasons is because they know it is a primary funder of organized crime in this country.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. McGuinty.

Next, I will go to Mr. Kingston.

First of all, thank you for nice things you said about this bill. It obviously will help in our endeavour to crack down on stolen cars. You also said we should be using every tool available.

I wanted to ask the same question insofar as technology is concerned. As you know, the Premier of Ontario has said that he will not be using these cameras for speeding purposes anymore. Do you think they can be put to good use to assist our law enforcement authorities to crack down on car theft?

[Brian Kingston]

I would have to defer to law enforcement partners. They are best placed to answer what the tools are that they're missing to interdict and effectively intercept these vehicles before they make it to export market.

[Brian Kingston]

We have seen an improvement in recovery rates. It's up 3% this year, but there is a way to go.

I hesitate to give you a definitive answer on that simply because I'm not in law enforcement.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I appreciate full well, as you've explained to us, that there is no perfect solution to this.

Mr. Kingston, would you agree that auto manufacturers also have to bear some responsibility and there are certain things they can do to make it more difficult for cars to be stolen?

[Brian Kingston]

Absolutely. This requires numerous actors and players in this ecosystem coordinating and working together to address this, and the manufacturer role is working with law enforcement and improving their vehicle security systems, which they're doing constantly.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. McGuinty, is there more that auto manufacturers can do?

[Liam McGuinty]

We've called for a whole-of-society approach to tackle this. There's certainly a role for automakers, and there's a role for government too.

One of the major outstanding items in the national action plan on combatting auto theft is the finalization of an update to the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. We've made input into that process, and so have a number of OEMs.

We haven't updated the standard since 2005. We think it's time to update that standard, and I think Transport Canada feels the same way. Technology has changed significantly since then and we think a standard should reflect that, and one of the ways to ensure a dynamic standard is to make it ambulatory in nature and have it evolve along with trends.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In your opening remarks, Mr. Kingston, you told us that it was a good thing that operators now have to provide facilities to enable border services officers to do their work.

Can you explain to me what concrete changes it could make, in the case of car theft, if there were facilities at a CN rail yard, for example?

[Brian Kingston]

One of the challenges we encountered when we started to dig into this and look more at what was happening at the port of Montreal specifically is that it's actually a constrained space and the CBSA didn't have the facilities to inspect outbound cargo at the rate that was necessary and pull cargo. When you think about a port of that size and scale and taking a container off a ship and bringing it somewhere you can safely open and inspect it, it takes quite a bit of physical space to do that effectively.

I think the bill is a step in the right direction because it guarantees and requires that port operators create that space for the CBSA, but there probably will still be some physical constraints at ports in Canada.

We cannot allow outbound cargo to leave Canada uninspected. That was what was happening and that was what was causing this problem.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Ports and railways will face significant costs to expand facilities, infrastructure and technology.

Do you think all costs should be covered by the operators, or should they be shared between the government and the operators?

[Brian Kingston]

Everybody has a role to play in it. I think the CBSA has to have the space to operate and do its job. I would argue, frankly, that if we don't address this, the costs will be borne by all Canadians in the form of higher theft rates, higher insurance costs and, ultimately, more government and taxpayer money going into addressing these crime issues.

While there may be an upfront cost to putting in place these facilities, the long-term payoff will far outweigh that cost.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.

Ms. Kirkland, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you for your testimony.

In one portion of it, Mr. McGuinty, I believe you mentioned that theft rates are 25% higher than 10 years ago. You said it was good news that the government has potentially introduced some tougher bail and sentencing to deter that.

Would you say, then, that the light type of bail and sentencing we have had over the last 10 years has increased auto theft over that period of time?

[Liam McGuinty]

I'll make a more general comment, because IBC is not an expert in the Criminal Code or—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I bring it up because you said it in your testimony.

[Liam McGuinty]

I did. I think that, for too long, auto theft was a very low-risk, high-reward proposition, and there's a lot that went into that.

One, it was easy to steal a car, and some models were easier than others. Two, there was a lack of focus on outbound exports. We started to remedy that, and I think that you've heard a number of voices, including from law enforcement, speak to the fact that sentencing was not strong enough.

We've supported Bill C-26. We've supported other measures that the government has introduced. We think it's appropriate to be more severe in terms of, especially, violent auto thefts.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I would like to pick up on something that Mr. Lloyd was asking at the end of his questioning.

If more luxury cars are being stolen now, which is what we're seeing, because the cost hasn't really gone down in terms of insurance, is that cost then being borne by average and low-income Canadians in their insurance costs?

[Liam McGuinty]

Everyone ultimately pays for higher auto theft costs and claims.

If you're driving a high-risk vehicle or a vehicle model that's more likely to be stolen, you're going to bear much more of that risk. In fact, in some provinces, we've seen specific surcharges get levied on high-risk vehicle models. Ultimately, insurance is a risk pool, so all of us pay more for higher risk.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Kingston, if you were to single out the largest barrier, just one, to stopping stolen vehicles from leaving Canada, what would be the largest barrier?

[Brian Kingston]

The biggest barrier is a lack of outbound cargo inspection.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Would you say that the absence of mandatory container screening at ports is still that largest one?

[Brian Kingston]

Yes.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Do you feel Bill C-12 addresses that enough?