Evidence of meeting #26 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was subamendment.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

MacSween  Director General, National Cyber Security Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Larose  Principal Advisor on Cyber Security, Communications Security Establishment
Gibson  Director, National Cyber Security Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Do I have a mover for G‑4?

Jacques Ramsay Liberal La Prairie—Atateken, QC

Yes. This amendment ensures that directives made under the bill cannot be used to order that an encrypted private communication be decoded. I think this amendment is in line with the wishes of all the members here. So I don't think it should be an issue.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Okay.

Shall G‑4 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Let's move on to CPC‑44.

Is amendment CPC-44 moved?

MP Lloyd.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Parkland, AB

Yes, I move the amendment.

I would like to ask the officials for their reflection on the amendment in relation to the privacy rights of Canadians.

4:05 p.m.

Director General, National Cyber Security Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Colin MacSween

We have no additional considerations to offer with this amendment. It's clearly in line with the policy intent of the bill. I don't have much to say beyond that.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Thank you.

Is CPC-44 adopted?

(Amendment agreed to)

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Let's move on to BQ‑11.

Would someone like to move that amendment?

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC

No.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

There's no desire to move BQ‑11, which takes us to G‑5.

Would someone like to move that amendment?

Jacques Ramsay Liberal La Prairie—Atateken, QC

I do.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Mr. Ramsay, the floor is yours.

Jacques Ramsay Liberal La Prairie—Atateken, QC

Amendment G‑5 simply proposes a proactive change that seeks to ensure that the Governor in Council takes into account the need for proportionality before issuing a cyber security directive. It establishes a legal standard for review and provides additional assurance that directives will be used only to protect critical cyber systems. So this amendment provides greater assurance.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay.

Seeing no discussion, shall G‑5 carry?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

We're now moving on to NDP‑12, which is deemed moved.

Is there any debate on NDP‑12?

Mr. Lloyd, the floor is yours.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Parkland, AB

I'll admit that this was a bit of a confusing motion for me. I'd like to ask the officials to provide some clarity on what the impact would be.

4:10 p.m.

Director General, National Cyber Security Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Colin MacSween

Simply stated, the amendment would remove the prohibition against disclosing the fact that a cybersecurity direction was issued to a designated operator and make the associated change in the “Disclosure—when allowed” section. In layman's terms, it would allow a designated operator to indicate that they were subject to a cybersecurity direction.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Thank you.

Is NDP-12 adopted?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We will move to BQ-12.

Is BQ‑12 moved?

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC

No, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Okay, thank you.

We're now going to move on to CPC‑45.

Is CPC-45 being moved?

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Parkland, AB

Yes, I'd like to move this amendment.

We're seeking to create a standard for information disclosure or collection. I'd like to ask the officials to provide some feedback on that.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Mr. Ramsay, you have the floor.

Jacques Ramsay Liberal La Prairie—Atateken, QC

Mr. Chair, I, too, would like to hear the experts' opinion.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Ms. Gibson, you have the floor.

Kelly-Anne Gibson Director, National Cyber Security Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think there may be some unintended consequences with this particular amendment. If the purpose of the amendment is to ensure that there are protections in place for personal information, I would highlight that there's already a reliance on the Privacy Act, which has a definition of personal information and rules around its use, which this act relies on.

I would highlight that the CSE Act also has provisions for the protection of personal information. The concern with the way this is worded is that it could unintentionally inhibit CSE from using the information for its lawful mandate. In practical terms, it could affect CSE's ability to provide support, through its voluntary program, to Canadian operators.

I think that's something you may wish to consider as part of this amendment.