Public Safety Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2025

[Gerard Peets]

Colleagues at CBSA and RCMP will have something to say about that question. When you look at the patterns and at the evidence, evidence presented in U.S. Senate committee hearings, where there's detailed evidence provided by northern police chiefs—such as the police chief of Spokane, Washington—describing fentanyl enforcement actions in the U.S., in the north, of Mexican-originating fentanyl, the amounts of seizures are orders of magnitude higher even now.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Canada has long been very proud of the longest undefended border in the world. In comparison with the border in the south of the United States, which is a much more militarized border, it seems much more likely that they would catch a lot more fentanyl coming from the southern border than from the northern border.

Is there any way to determine the provenance of fentanyl? I'm wondering if there's a chemical compound such that you could say, “This fentanyl originated from here”, or if it's chemically the same regardless of the provenance or the jurisdiction it came from.

[Gerard Peets]

This would be a good question to ask Health Canada officials in a future conversation. There are investments being made in understanding those kinds of issues.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

So you don't know yet. Okay. Thank you for that.

My next line of questions will be for the RCMP.

Back in January, the RCMP moved to contract four American Black Hawk helicopters to assist at the border. Are those Black Hawks still in service today?

[Sean McGillis]

We currently have three Black Hawk helicopters in operation. We have entered into procurement arrangements where we are chartering them at the moment and working on a longer-term procurement strategy.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Those are the ones that were done in January. Is that correct?

[Sean McGillis]

Two were done in January, and a third was added in June.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Are these Black Hawk helicopters still operating under a special airworthiness certificate?

[Sean McGillis]

I will defer to Chief Superintendent McGowan on that. I believe we have all our authorities in place, but I'll let Chief Superintendent McGowan answer that question.

[Jamie McGowan, Chief Superintendent, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

The three Black Hawk helicopters being used by the RCMP are currently operating under the Canadian aviation regulations, in accordance with the regulations that are in place for conducting aerial work. We are wholly within—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Are they currently under a special airworthiness certificate?

[Jamie McGowan]

I would not be able to provide that information at this time. They've been certified to operate in Canada.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

They were given an exemption from Canadian safety rules back in January. Is that exemption still in place, or do those Black Hawks now comply with Canadian safety rules?

[Jamie McGowan]

This would be a question that's best referred to Transport Canada for a specific answer. The way we are operating is wholly within our regulations.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

The Black Hawks, as procured, were not certified to carry passengers, and they were not certified to fly over built-up areas. We know the Canadian border is, in many places, very built-up.

Are you saying you don't know whether those Black Hawks are currently operating under Canadian safety regulations or are still operating under an exemption?

[Jamie McGowan]

Mr. Chair, that's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the helicopters are permitted to operate and conduct aerial work. The police work we're conducting in them is inclusive of that. They are not permitted to carry passengers for air taxi under Canadian air regulations.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

That's understood.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

That's what you meant by airworthiness.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

In my final 45 seconds, was this the RCMP's primary recommendation for the helicopter to purchase or contract?

[Jamie McGowan]

Do you mean in terms of the type of platform?

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

I mean in terms of the specific helicopter, the Black Hawk.

[Jamie McGowan]

It was operationally driven, based on the requirements we have for work.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Were there no Canadian helicopter company platforms that were capable of fulfilling these requirements?

[Jamie McGowan]

Given the totality of the requirements and the operational need for the specifications for those helicopters, we went to an operations-based model to procure them, as we're doing right now for—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Were there no Canadian helicopters that could do the job of these Black Hawks?