Public Safety Committee on April 21st, 2026

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you also to all the witnesses.

Mr. Hamilton, I have to say that your remarks have been really fascinating.

This is one of my concerns: Given that you explained to us the cascading effect this has, and that some of your members are buying these cars because they don't know any better.... For the buyers, obviously it's caveat emptor. How can we try to nip this in the bud so that it doesn't happen anymore? This is going to tie up the courts. It's going to lead to vulnerable Canadians having to take matters into their own hands. What can we do to make sure dealers aren't mistakenly dabbling in this stuff?

[James Hamilton]

That, again, is an excellent question, and it speaks to education. I said earlier that if CBSA tomorrow were to say, “Okay, Jim, here's the data,” it would not make all of this go away. I never would suggest that. It's a piece, but you're pointing out another piece, and that's education.

Dealers in Ontario are now required to take mandatory education. Salespeople and motor vehicle dealers must meet, every year, educational requirements, and part of that education is teaching them how to assess a vehicle correctly and what to look for.

There are some identifying features you can look for with a revinned or cloned vehicle. John has more experience on the enforcement side. The VIN plates on the dashboard are very specific, with proper rivets. If they're really well done, they can fool ordinary people but not an expert. Some of them are not so well done, and if dealers were educated to look for that and to compare the VINs on the dash versus the driver's door and the trunk, each of which has a VIN plate, they will see that sometimes the sloppier criminals won't even bother to fix those, so you will have a VIN on the dash that doesn't match the one on the door. That's a red flag.

Simple things like this could be done.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

I also have to say that I agree with you that privacy considerations shouldn't get in the way of the CBSA's actually sharing some information, but that has to be determined.

My next question is this. You alluded to the fact that since 2024, when we had a summit, the numbers are down 20%, but I'm of the view that it's far too little. There has to be more that we can be doing to improve those numbers.

From a technological or high-tech equipment standpoint, for our authorities to do a better job trying to get in the way of these criminal gangs and making sure that cars aren't stolen and exported, what more do we need?

[James Hamilton]

I'm going to defer to John to some extent.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I'm going to ask the same question of John too.

[James Hamilton]

Okay. Fair enough.

I would say that from what I understand, the CBSA has some work to do in developing a bit more of a technology solution for the reporting of VINs. When a vehicle is exported, a lot of self-reporting is still relied on and collected informally. The VINs are not being collected in an easily digestible way. If you were talking to someone in IT, they would have some solutions to suggest what they would prefer to see with bulk data. My understanding is that they're working on that, but we don't get a lot of information as to what the timelines are with CBSA. I would say there's a lot of work to be done and probably some money to be spent to make sure they can more effectively record VIN data.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Now we go to Mr. Tod. In your remarks you actually touched on this, that the CBSA needs more high-tech tools and equipment. What would that constitute?

[John Tod]

That's a great question.

This committee has made a number of great recommendations in the past, and I think going to the scanners and those types of things....

I'm not going to talk so much about the technology part, as there are people who can provide better advice on that. If I could offer this, I would say that as far as I can see, the scalability of it is the issue, meaning the ability to scale up to examine vehicles with CBSA. Moreover, part of the issue is that the CBSA lacks any clarity as to the responsibilities. It's very confusing. You heard from other witnesses as to who has the role in the ports to assist the CBSA, whether it's the police or the private sector.

To go back to your first question, sir, of how to stop the revinning issue, this committee back in 2024 made some really great recommendations. I think it was Commissioner Tom Carrique of the OPP, representing the CACP, who recommended that every province have a legitimate VIN examination program. You adopted his recommendation. When a consumer or somebody comes to a registration desk, and if there's any issue, that permit has to be defined and be consistent. If there's any issue with that VIN, the vehicle would not get sold but go off for a legitimate examination before it could go on to an unsuspecting consumer. If you put that deterrent in place, the criminals would move elsewhere.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry to end that great conversation.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming here today and for dedicating so much time and effort to prepare for this meeting.

Have a great afternoon.

For MPs, please stay a few additional seconds regarding the timetable.

We'll continue our study on Thursday with some other great witnesses.

We'll have the spring economic statement next Tuesday, 28 April, and so we won't have a meeting on that day.

As you may know, next Thursday, 30 April, we'll have two ministers: The Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship to testify on Canada's ability to remove foreign nationals with a criminal record.

As you probably know, Bill C‑22 passed at second reading yesterday. The clerk of the committee has already requested you to consider the witnesses you would like to suggest to appear for this study, which is just around the corner.

Thank you, and have a good afternoon.